New Poll: Americans Shun Electrics

I agree with you and I would not do that either. A large battery may in some cases cost more than the rest of a vehicle. In a few years, a book value of a car with a large battery may be less than the cost of the replacement battery unless battery prices tumble. Some say the KWH will cost $250.00 in a few years by the time these cars need replacement batteries. The Prius battery is small and I think of it in terms of replacing a transmission cost wise.

Consumer Reports recently looked into old Prius batteries and wrote:

Consumer Reports: Article with Video!
The 200,000-mile question: How does the Toyota Prius hold up?

 

I love the heat of the whole EV debate, but for now, it's rather pointless.
There's no infrastructure for EV's. There isn't gonna be for a while. I have no heartburn spending federal tax dollars to subsidize LEAF ownership for the few who can use them effectively (it beats watching shrimp run on treadmills!) because EV technology will help gas burners turn into more efficient hybrid gas burners.
I don't think that the US population distribution will make EVs economically viable for mainstream use, even in the long term. Too many people here live 25++ miles away from where they work, and gas is already $8+ a gallon in places where population densities would make EVs more workable. How many LEAFs are they selling in the EU?

I live on the Gulf Coast, so I have some skin in the game with the whole "drill baby drill" goat grab. The simple fact is that the beaches here are orders of magnitude cleaner than they were before the oil spill. If somebody driving along Highway 90 flicks a cigarette butt out their car window, three people in BP uniforms will fight each other to catch it before it hits the ground!
Yeah....I know. I have to listen to overeducated people specuguess about the ecological impact (a legacy of my NRL days... ) but this is a pointless argument as well.
Does anybody really think that they're going to leave the oil in the ground?
If 40-percent of global oil production goes for terrestrial transportation, where does the other 60-percent go? Remember...a large portion of the (insert notional number here) percent that goes into terrestrial transportation powers tractor-trailer trucks.
How is electricity going to change that industry?
See any EAs (Electric Airliners) out there?

Maybe I'm overly cynical, but I just don't see humans leaving the oil in the ground.
If we continue to develop alternative energy sources the best that you can probably hope for is a diminution of the negative impact when we shift from oil/coal to whatever we decide to use next....probably when the oil/coal starts to run out.

If somebody ever figures out cold fusion (without turning the earth into a ball of plasma while they're tinkering with it) maybe we'll have an answer to this problem.
For right now….it’s a six-versus-half dozen argument.
JHMO!
(Current Value: < $0.02 --- or about 0.75 ounces of gas --- or about 1.4 ounces of crude oil!)

 

I recognize the look on their faces. It's the forlorn expression of Leaf owners who have just run out of amps and realize that there's no place around to get more. :drum:

 

The important thing one MUST remember is that there is what we say we'll do and there's what we'll do. E.g. virtually all minivan owners who said "I'll never buy a minivan". I was one of them. Eventually I changed. Or would never buy a Prius, etc. Polls must be taken with a grain of salt as they represent simply an answer without effort or background. Of course more people would buy electrics--in fact 100% of people would if gas cost $5000 /gallon and there were enough electrics to buy.

However, assuming gas even stayed under $10 (which it will for many, many years to come) at this point electrics are nothing more than a toy for most people. They are unwilling to put up with the drawbacks, which are numerous (expensive to buy, pitiful range, long charge times, no infrastructure). If gas hit $6 tomorrow and the poll was re run the numbers would change.

 

So you spent $15,832 over 3 years (downpayment plus payments). I just last week leased a 2011 Altima 3.5 SR, $1500 out of pocket to cover taxes and all that jazz and 39 X $209, but over 3 years and 36 instead of 39 = $9024. 36,000 miles at 23 mpg, say gas over next three years costs $3.80 I paid almost a thousand less than you after three years--even if you paid nothing for electricity. And for this I have a much larger car I can refill at the pump, will never run out of charge, and has 270 horsepower. I could have bought a 2011 Elantra and saved $2000 more off the figure I just mentioned after payment and gas savings, but the V6 Altima was a much better deal.

My Prius lease of course from last year was even better. $1500 out of pocket and $171/month plus its incredible savings in gas. $3.8 gas and payments and downpayment has total 3 year cost at $10,392.

The above is why the Leaf is more or less a beta test now. To its credit, the Prius when it first came out made no monetary sense whatsoever, either, and that's fine. The V6 Altima vs an elantra made no sense, but I wanted one, as you wanted a Leaf. I would pay a premium for one, too (just not the amount they demand now), because it would be "fun" to have an electric car.

 

Quite the opposite, I think they are going to take it all out. Long before that last drop comes though it will be far far too expensive to use for transportation energy.

 

The real "positive" story here is that 43% favor the EV idea. We Americans like to believe in new ideas, so seems like quite a huge EV support. Gotta hope its not another PT Barnum trick on us.

 

Hill made a valid point & Skilbovia is funny! Hope Leaf owners with sense of humor also find this funny or they will be all over you!

 

... and since that figure far exceeds the actual EV manufacturing capacity for years to come, I also take the poll as positive.

 

oh yes . . . I get it. See example below:

Amperage is the strength of an electric current ... so I'm gona guess you really meant kwh's. But yea ... that's right. The forlorn look. We should thank our lucky stars that folks back in the 1910's were not so short sighted or hand wringing gloom and doom'ers to always be saying, "oh dear ... there are no gas stations ... and way too few asphalt roads ... this whole automobile thing is dumb, it'll never work ... what shall we do now?!? ... we better stick with steam trains and horse drawn buck boards if we have any common sense" . . . . Is THAT the forlorn look being referenced?

are you saying you've NEVER run out of gas? Congrat's !! You're one of the few, fwiw. That's why the Auto Club carries spare gas. Regardless of fuel ... propane, electricity, or gasoline ... people invariably fail to weigh their range versus their destination. The shorter the range and the less frequent the re-fill stations, the 'smarter' you have to be. So is the moral of the story that only smart people should try EV's in these early stages? Maybe so. If that's true, EV (during the early stages of building EV / PHEV infrastructure) sales people ought to post the following caveat: "This vehicle is NOT for dumb people who have the propensity to not plan ahead ... please move on". Yes, I suppose that's a valid point ... they're definitely not for EVeryone. Maybe they'll only work for 70%-80% of folks owning more than one vehicle. I wonder how many Al Queda supporting-smog belching-fuel saving miles that would work out to. We've had PV solar for years. So the cost of charging up (instead of being tempted to buy any gas) to do daily commutes, is almost non-existent. And that leaves LOTS of fuel left so we can continue to fight wars in countries that hate us because we're propping up dictators over there, that continue to sell us fuel, so they can hopefully continue to buy bomb supplies, and keep bombing us. Great plan ... Just lovely.

.

 

I'd bet when they bring the gas it doesn't take a few hours to pour it in

 

Why would you need to 'pour it in'? You don't need to charge the traction battery, you just need to provide power to the motor, that can be done by the equivalent of jump starting the car.

 

I ran out of gas once on a rental, years back. I was no the highway and its gas gauge was not calibrated in the same way all other cars I was used to driving (most of which have a substantial buffer when you're on "empty"). But planning within a 350-400+ mile range is easy, within a 70 mile range it becomes harder.

Indeed. I walked half a mile or a mile to the next exit, grabbed a can of gas, and was on my merry way.

The last time I was most concerned about running out of gas but didn't I was driving on the highway, lowish on gas but nothing crazy, was going to fill up shortly. Then got hit by an out-of-the-blue unreal lake effect snow storm by lake ontario. Suddenly was brought to a crawl, along with everyone else, and what should have been a soon arrival to the gas station ended up taking much longer. I was quite pleased when I finally made it to the gas station and hadn't run out. Some conditions we can plan for, some within reason we can't. The lower your range the more damning these circumstances can become.

 

You are absolutely right about this and I recently posted the same argument about what people were saying of the first cellphone about 25 years ago. Cellphones had a few minutes of talk time if there was coverage in the area, and dropped calls, etc..

http://www.tn.gov/environment/tn_consv/archive/electric_cars.pdf

 

ok so the only real conclusion we can make is that EV'ers will not budge nor will Gassers budge as far as what is right for them which is pretty much what i expected to get out of this.

so, can we roll the clock back 7 years and retitle the thread

New Poll: Americans Shun Hybrids

 

This is an apt comparison, but for right now...and probably for the next few decades, EV's are going to be more of a toy for well-heeled eco-geeks, than a serious transportation appliance, just like the old brick phones used to be. I'm sitting in a telephone central office right now---and we still have a looooooooot of copper leaving the office!!! Some of these "old school" copper pairs feed cell towers.
Even with three decades of furious development, fueled by an industry and a country that's demanding more and more coverage and bandwidth---there are still serious cellular gaps out here in fly-over country. Quite a few folks still have the old Mk-1, Mod-0 telephone sitting in their kitchens and bedrooms.

25 years from now....who knows?

Your argument also leaves out one tiny little point.
Cellular telecommunications represents far more than mobility, but rather it is a huge leap in communications and information management ability for the user.
A similar investment in EV infrastructure---even if it were fueled by demand from the populace, rather than an edict from the government (and this still may occur if/when fossil or other hydrocarbon based fuels becomes scarce) would leave you with a product that is at best a direct replacement for, rather than a quantum improvement to, an already existing product.
It's like spending a zillion dollars today to send humans to the moon.
We've already done that.

I'm a proponent of R/D...and I like the fact that we're doing the EV thing. We are after all, probably going to send people back to the moon someday just to see if we can do it better. I dig trickle down technology.
Like cellular communications, EV has a loooooooooong road to travel (pun almost unintended) before it can replace ICEs for prime time travel, but this does not mean that they will replace the old ICE! It's been almost 70 years since the jet aircraft was developed and flown---yet they're still manufacturing prop planes, and they probably will be for quite a while.
Same with EVs.

Give it time.
It'll probably be worth the wait.

 

i dont think it will take that long. either the Leaf will prove to be reliable over the long term or it will not. that evidence should be available in 3 to 5 years. by then, we will either have many reports of battery pack failures or unacceptable levels of range degradation or we will not.

the problem is; EVs are such a good idea on so many levels that it really only has to be exposed. see my post above. this whole discussion is the same discussion made when i got my first Prius. its literally word for word.

even if gas is $2 a gallon; EVs are still the right thing to do. it aint about cost. its about being self sufficient and providing jobs HERE. a massive realignment of our energy base will require a massive workforce to get it done. we quite frankly need that much much more than we need $2 gas.

 

I sometimes, seriously question the automobile IQ of the public. I would like to know what percentage of drivers can actually check their oil or change a flat tire. I recently read this and I think it is an outrage.


Study: One-third of drivers don't know what this dashboard light means &mdash; Autoblog

 

Can't see the forest for the trees?

Far too many Americans (myself included) drive far too many miles because we live too far from our:

workplaces
children's schools
shopping centers
health care providers
friends
churches
etc. etc.

The issue is not gasoline or electric. It is how far we distance challenged two legged creatures are from where we want to be at a given moment in time? It appears for the majority of the middle and upper class - ALWAYS TOO FAR!

I'm hoping to buy my next home as close to my workplace as possible and have been searching recently. If I found an affordable home within walking distance, it is possible (but not probable) we would only need one car for two adults and one child.

Our energy use as a family would decrease significantly in that we would cut our gasoline usage by more than half.

The cost savings would be tremendous! I now have three cars two of which I own and one I almost own (only 10 easy payments remaining). I pay $2000/year in car insurance, $250 in taxes (license plates), in addition to maintenance, depreciation, etc. etc. to possess these vehicles. And it's all so unnecessary. I, and many others like me, could have made better decisions. I'm trying to change that now.

Will my next car be gasoline, diesel, hybrid, electric, fuel cell?
Maybe.........none of the above.

 

i made that decision 7 years ago. it has cost me in reduced wages and opportunity, but at the same time, my weekly commute time is about
3½ hours. ya, thats right. that is average time spent in car travelling from my home to work and back and that includes side trips to pick up my Son 3 days a week.

other reasons why we should go electrics:

BPA decision may prompt wind shutdown soon | Sustainable Business Oregon

Wind power companies criticize BPA shutdown plan | The Columbian

Wind power shut down to make way for hydro | Ecotrope

Local News | Wind-power producers fight possible shutdown of turbines | Seattle Times Newspaper

Energy Northwest power outage extended - Mid-Columbia News | Tri-City Herald : Mid-Columbia news

Energy NW extends power outage | Energy Management Systems

these links are just the tip of the iceberg as to the massive problems our country faces. we have the knowledge, the people, the resources and the space to succeed, but we simply are too uninformed to the real consequences of our actions