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Engine racing following service

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by PA Prius, May 13, 2011.

  1. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    I had our '04, 149,000 miles in for PA state inspection and emissions test as well as to be looked at because of a P0505 diagnostic code. The symptom of the diagnostic code was that the ICE would not shut at all. The past few months I simply cleared the code (ScanGuage) and things were immediately back to normal until the check engine light came on again.

    Anyway, in response to the P0505 today they replaced the air filter (I checked, it is installed correctly), checked for vacuum leaks (all okay) and cleaned the throttle body. My wife picked up the car this afternoon from the repair shop (independent, but mechanic trained by Toyota for Prius). Upon arriving home she said I needed to drive it because it is acting very strange. We drove it this evening and indeed it is acting strange. A number of times the engine revved up to 2800-3000 rpm when my foot was off the gas, e.g. slowing to go around a corner or even when sitting at a traffic light. The SOC was normal (blue bars), not high or low. It was also interesting, because even though the transmission was in D, the car was not pulling to go forward, e.g. at the traffic light-- in D, engine revving, but car just sitting there as though it was idling or ICE off.

    The ICE would shut down and go to battery mode appropriately. However I noticed that the mpg would not go about about 110 when backing off the gas going down a long hill at around 50 mph (engine warm, battery normal charge). Normally this would bump it up to around 200.

    This latter symptom of mpg not going about 110 is a bit subjective and we only drove around 20 miles this evening, but I know we did not experience the engine revving before the car being serviced today.

    Your thoughts, o wise ones?!?

    PA P
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Did the check engine light or any other warning lights come on this evening as the car engine exhibited the unusual revving behavior?

    2. Was a DTC logged? If so what was it?

    3. If a DTC was logged, have you tried to clear it after experiencing the engine overrev problem?

    If you can get rid of the overrev problem temporarily by clearing the DTC, the problem is not mechanical in nature (such as a leak in the air induction system or a dirty throttle body interior.) If the problem persists then perhaps you have a leak in the intake system below the throttle plate, like a loose PCV hose, a leaking gasket between the throttle body and intake manifold, or a crack in the intake manifold.

    4. The Toyota repair manual provides instructions about how to inspect the electronic throttle assembly. The tech is supposed to disconnect the wiring harness connector to that part, then manually open the throttle plate and see that the THROTTLE POS value is 60% or greater. This should be done now if DTC P0505 persists. The point of this test is to show that the throttle position sensor is accurately reporting the open throttle to the engine ECU.

    5. If the electronic throttle assembly is functioning OK, then I would suggest reflashing the engine ECU. If that doesn't help then you may need a new engine ECU.
     
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  3. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    Thanks Patrick.

    1) No warning lights last evening.

    2) No DTC code.

    3) After clearing the code, don't you need to drive a certain number of miles before the code is able to reappear? Maybe we are still in that code-free zone? If the code reappears I can see if clearing the code also takes care of the revving problem. However, it is revving now and the code is not showing. With the previous problem of the ICU not shutting down when the P0505 code showing, the ICU did shut down during the code-free zone. This makes me think clearing the code would not effect the revving, since it is revving now.

    4) I can check to see if the tech checked the electronic throttle assembly as you suggest.

    5) If the electronic throttle assembly is functioning okay, is the reflashing something that only a Toyota dealer can do? Cost to replace ECU?

    I did search this site before my post last evening, but have searched more since then. I came across this thread--
    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...9887-ice-ran-high-rpm-no-apparent-reason.html
    See especially John1701a's response in post #4.
    Could it be this will take care of itself?

    PA P
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    An interesting thread. I personally have not noticed this with 120K miles on my 2004. I had noticed frequent "housekeeping" on my 2001 when I owned it, but this related to the engine running at idle speed, not an overrev situation as you have related.

    The engine ECU reflash requires access to TIS. Your independent mechanic might subscribe to that service if he specializes in Toyota vehicle repair. The price of a new engine ECU will be several hundred $s plus labor time; you may be able to find a salvage unit for $100 or so.
     
  5. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    I saw reference somewhere to disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes after cleaning the throttle body + MAF to cure this problem. It will force the ECM to re-learn. Or take it back to your mechanic.
     
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  6. josh2008

    josh2008 Active Member

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    Try getting the engine above 157F and come to a stop with the engine running. This is where the car would normally do its ~10 second stage 4 idle dance. However, if the car is trying to relearn its throttle angle/idle this "stage 4 dance" will last much, much longer, up to 3-5minutes. Try this, just be patient, I think it will fix your issue.
     
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  7. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    I tried this for ten minutes (timed). The coolant temp was at 184° when I began. The engine cycled constantly every 2 seconds between 1400 and 1800 rpm. I turned it off after ten minutes.

    Can anyone else confirm whether disconnecting the 12v battery may help?

    PA P
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It may not help, but it wouldn't hurt.
     
  9. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    I disconnected the 12v battery for half an hour and then drove 20 miles. It appears to be okay so far-- no revving and driving downhill where power was not required showed higher mpg. I'll confirm after more driving.

    PA P
     
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  10. B5er

    B5er Junior Member

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    did the battery disconnect solve the problem?
     
  11. PA Prius

    PA Prius Active Member

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    Sorry I didn't get back to confirm after more driving. This is feeling like a long time ago, but I believe unhooking the 12v battery took care of it. We are now at 185,000 miles and still going strong. Putting less miles on the Prius these days since we got our Think City EV.

    PA Prius