pacific northwest will be coal free in 2026

That's good news, to be less reliant on coal. What are the chances California could import more hydroelectric power from its Northerly neighbours, and cut down on the coal?

 

About a 1/3 of Portland General Electric power comes from coal, 1/3 Hydro and 1/3 natural gas. There's a smattering of wind, nuclear, geo thermal and solar, etc.

 

It is funny how it works out: coal free while importing coal generated from neighboring states (Utah, Wyoming, and Montana).

Perhaps you being abducted and taken to another planet when you cross state line?

How do you spell hypocrisy?

 

Ot only that, but two Washington counties are actively pursuing coal port facilities to export Powder River basin coal to ,,, China.

(Whatom and Greys Harbor counties)

Icarus

 

And what of India? I saw a headline today saying India wanted 67,000MW of solar (yes, you read that right).

Here's the link if you're interested:

India to Add 67,000MW of solar by 2022

 

And at least one of those 16 is the Apache 3 750 MW plant in Pueblo, CO, which is an IGCC plant. It's still coal, but it's cleaner and more efficient than a typical pulverized coal burning plant. We're also decommissioning at least 1 small coal plant and converting a few others to use NG instead of coal.

 

After California steals the rest of our hydro, what are we supposed to do? Fire up that Centralia coal plant again, suffer rolling brownouts, or invade BC?

Any surplus hydro we (WA-OR-ID) have is already being shipped to CA. That supply will shrink in the future. CA's only hope is that our 'renewables' mandate specifically excludes environmentally destructive, habit-destroying hydroelectric power, while their similar law includes green, environmentally friendly hydroelectric power.

 

Well that *sounds* good, but my experience is you might be under-estimating the power of the financial formula that favors coal burning, even if nat gas is cheaper. Just passed a plethora of Clean Green Coal billboards this weekend. For the short-medium term you seem to be correct. Do you have a projection for USA power mix in 2020, 2030, 2040 etc? The Japan nuke situation may upset the apple cart too.

 

the "clean coal" option was investigated for the plant and deemed too expensive. the plant only fires for a few hours a day making any long term investments too expensive.

We have gone from 49% of peak power (from 1 pm to 7 pm) from coal in 1995 to less than 30% today and most of that gain is due to better water management and the addition of wind to the mix.

it will be tough locally to see the place go. i know 3 people who work there and will lose some huge paychecks in an area that has very little high paying jobs. there is a huge sand and gravel business here (thanks to a million years of volcanic activity) that will take up some of the slack and the coal plant area is a prime development area, so it will be a good thing overall

 

we used to ship TONS of power off peak to keep the Dams from overflowing, but its a balancing act to prevent down stream flooding which is a major concern right now that winter snows are melting.

but a HUGE amount of that excess is now being used locally as Server Farms from google, MS and Amazon are now replacing aluminum plants as the largest power customers.

fact is, power companies get a lot more money for power if its used locally due to regulations that limits what they can sell power to another state for...

the regulations for power here is probably one of the worst in the country. you should see my electric bill. bring an accountant!!

 

You owe $87.28. What could be simpler than that?

The legal, accounting, computing, and banking machinations involved at the other end are vastly more complicated, I'm sure.

 

What gets lost in all these discussions, is the value of 1 kwh of electrical power, at ~.10 kwh is incredibly cheap!

If we were to pay the real environmental costs of our energy choices (and wastage!) the market price would be about twice as high, making clean, sustainable alternatives much more viable! Not only that, but as we can see with liquid fuel prices, higher prices change behavior,and lead to making more efficient choices!

I know that the "conservative" crowd hate talk of carbon taxes, or regulations or anything that will impact their own pocket book, but the reality is that the costs are going to be paid,, the only question is when, and how big they will be.

Icarus

 

Recently heard Duke Energy CEO on CNN and he said yes cheap now, but due to aging plants etc., the future elec cost will go up due to replacement costs. He said this is independent of type of power mix we go for, green or otherwise. I do not know how I feel about carbon tax, some merit. How about a carbon tax on new plants to encourage lower CO2 in the new plants?

 

On top of all the fuzzy math and subsidies we have some environmental group against every source of power and the transmission lines to get it where it's needed.

 

I'm coal free in generation, but I still imprt coal power from Xcel Electric.

 

Autsin- Thank you for taking a crack at the future %mix question.
I guess we can say, correct me here, the Obama Admin is asking us to target 80% clean elec by 2030. Presumably this means 20% conventional coal, 80% clean (clean coal + Nat Gas + Nuke + Renewables). That plan was stated before the Japan tsunami incident, so that's one fly in the ointment.