MOJAVE DESERT: Solar project would disturb thousands of tortoises

Nova will have a show on American Electricity. from the 30 second preview, it appears it will be on where it comes from and how we use it...mostly how we waste it. may 3rd, 8 pm. might be worth a look

 

Have not seen NOVA in years, used to be a favorite. I wonder if they have it on Hulu or something.

 

Was talking a chap last night who is involved with the new 280 MW CSP plant down in Gila Bend, AZ. It's actually a 400 MW plant because 120MW goes toward charging the thermal storage "tanks" so that the plant can run for an additional 6 hours on storage. I thought it interesting that it has no NG backup. It's a pure solar plant. Sadly, it sounds like the 200+MW plant that was to be built here in CO is off the table for now... transmission issues and some NIMBY bollocks stand in the way. It'll probably happen eventually. Another fellow (dinner party we were hosting, 6 guests and two of them happen to work in the solar and wind industries) had some interesting stories about managing a grid w/ a lot of wind power on it. Some distinct challenges there. But that's a discussion for another thread.

 

Its good to see some plants moving forward and no endangered species at risk in gila bend. It also doesn't need grid upgrading.

I'm a little confused by why there is not gas turbines also on site. Gas can make csp more efficient by heating the water. Arizona has gas generation capacity for peak anyway so it is already there when the sun is not shining, but in other plants. This is a different situation in California where there is not enough peak energy and they must buy power from other states.

I'm confused by the 400MW figure. I read it as there is 280 MW of solar. Trip do you have a different peak power? The peak usage is between 5-6 pm in the summer for these customers, which should align nicely with peak sun. The biggest environmental problem is water usage, but it will displace agricultural land that also had heavy water usage.

 

AG, the max output is 280MW, but an additional 120MW charges the storage. This is from a guy who was involved in the design of the site. The conversation ended up drifting to another related topic and we didn't return to the NG backup issue. I was kinda surprised by it myself. Next time I see him, I'll be sure to ask about the reasoning.

 

I would benefit from a separate grid discussion. When it comes to utilities, I always have trouble figuring out what we really need to build vs. what somebody wants to build as a pro-jobs make-work project. I know, if we are building plants in the desert then we need a line back to the grid.

 

Centralized power plants are a thing of the past. Follow Germany's example and put decentralized photovoltaic panels on every roof of every church, school, business and residence as well as along every highway. Centralized proposals as this are by people who don't know what they are doing.

 

Funny you should say that sKruse.

I was thinking yesterday of the 30-40% energy loss involved in collecting PV and then submitting it to to AC and then DC conversion losses. It will be nice when an EV hooked up at home can take DC from the home array, and only convert to AC the PV production fraction to be stored. I like the idea of viewing the utility as a big AC battery

 

unless you store energy on site, PV can't be the only solution because it's not dispatchable power. It's a great way to combat peak power issues, but it's not baseload power. You can't have massive swings in grid voltage. that's baaaaaad. as much PV as germany has installed, it's still a very small part of their energy picture. Note that I'm not saying PV isn't worthwhile, it absolutely is, but for the short/mid term it's going to be an accompanist, not the frontman.

 

Currently, Peak power is the problem. There is a proposed project around here to build a huge plant which will produce NO power, just convert base load power into peak load power. My local power company pays up to 60 cents/kWh for peak power; it is trying to give away base load power at 3 cents per kWh to consumers. PV is the frontman. (or could be).

Once PV is supplying all of the (sunny) peak load, then we can worry about it only being available during the day.

PV can be switched off quickly, and doesn't suffer if it is unloaded, it should help any grid voltage regulation issue not exacerbate it.

 

that's true as long as it's not the dominant form of power. Agree with your comments about peak power. PV trends really nicely with that.

 

The Boondoggle saga continues

Saving desert tortoises is a costly hurdle for solar projects - latimes.com

 

I am just impressed any part of Nevada can support 3,000 tortoises in 5 square miles. Sound bogus to me. Now if you said 25 tortoises I could believe you. Any chance these 3,000 tortoises are over the life of the project?

 

If I were a turtle - I'd LOVE to find a bit of shade under PV panels.



.

 

That is less than one tortoise per acre. I can believe it.

 

I don't think it's the PV panels, but the retrenching and grading that the Caterpillars do. I say, do the work at night, and mount spotters on the vehicles who wear night vision/thermal optics to pluck and relocate the tortoise.

 

This is CSP not PV. If you are a desert tortoise wanting to kill itself, that is the only reason you would want to be part of this project. Our local pv project is also disrupting habitat, but it is not in a sensitive habitat. If you are putting pv on existing buildings that's an entirely different story.

Its hard to believe the biologists and solar company seem to be moving so incompetently. How about getting a bunch of collage students to find the turtles during spring break? It should be a lot more effective than what is going on now.

 

sorry, but I refuse to let this thread go unfunny;
I note for example, that THIS site advertises our beloved Prius ... all the while touting great recipes for tortoise soup:

Awesome Tortoise Soup Recipe! | The Attic

Oh the irony.

 

The title of this thread causes me to imagine a stampede of fleeing tortoises, racing away at a snail's pace. In two or three years they'll make it to the next county.

Tom

 

i think the turtles would enjoy the shade the structures would provide. i propose they spend a few hundred on some signage "Caution; Turtle Crossing"