Volt owners averaged 1000 miles between fill-ups in March

Quick estimate in my head starting from 120 mpg is 2/3 miles are EV.

The infamous 40 mile/day nonsense expected much better than 2/3, and of course the noise on the internet from Volt fans hyped 100% EV.


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Just an exercise, lets see how a plug-in Prius (PiP) would have fared as the car of this group:

PiP: Will assume 14/40 Volt EV miles,
50 mpg for non-EV miles:

EV miles: 233
Petrol: 15.34
Petrol MPG: 65

So the Volt with 3x EV range saves 1.92x petrol.

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How about a theoretical PiP with 20 miles EV range and 45 mpg on petrol ?

EV miles: 333
Petrol: 14.8
Petrol MPG: 67.5


14 miles AER is not sexy, but it sure makes a lot of sense. By the way, it is probably not by chance that GM waited for the end of winter to publish some data lol

 

You are absolutely correct if the discussion is about the efficiency of the vehicle. I think the point that gets overlooked on here sometimes though is that one of the reasons many people want to go to the grid instead of the pump is to wean off our addiction to foreign oil. If that is the discussion the only relevant metric is how much of the oil are you still buying.

 

I believe it was 70% of driving is less than 40 miles. 700 EV miles out of 1000 total miles is 70% electric driving, looks pretty much as expected.

I have many days where I get 100% sometimes a couple hundred miles of it in a row. Then there is a long trip that brings my average back closer to this figure.

 

If this group had been relying on a plug in prius for transportation in March of 2011 they would have been walking. Likely if they try to rely on it for transportation in March of 2012 they will be walking.

When you have a non-hypothetical car to compare it to we will discuss it further.

[sorry about the triple posting in a row, I really need to learn to use the multi-quote function]

 

what worries me that Volt owners drive only 1000mi a month (12K annual) which means they don't really need high MPG car. 15,000$/35MPG car would cost 115$ a month to fuel under these conditions, and it would take 20+ years to recover the cost difference.

 

I don't get it.
I am no fan of GM. However, this news strikes me as good news. The Volt drivers are using less gasoline, right?
Many are challenging themselves and others to get better efficiency, very much like Prius drivers did/are.
Immediate feedback of efficiencies are helpful, weather driving a Prius or Volt.
Less Gasoline is a good thing and evidence that GM is selling to the correct market is great news.

And, if the on-star data is opt-in, I want to thank the Volt owners for sharing that data

 

Its not about spending less money to get from A to B, its about using less oil (in a package that is luxurious and incredibly fun to drive).

In the first 3 weeks of my ownership of the Volt I used 17 gallons to go a distance that a 50 mpg prius would have needed to use 33 gallons. That is saving more than 5 gallons every week, over the course of the year that is more than 260 gallons less oil demand for me (because I moved into the Volt from a prius). I know I'm not saving a $1000 per year on gas because I also have energy costs, but that is not what is important to me.

 

This is indeed the GM bullet point GM Volt fans have swallowed and regurgitate frequently, but hypocrisy is rampant. E.g.,

How do you explain the SUV and the sports cars in the garages ?
How do many Volt fans explain the decade of 18-25 mpg driving leading up to the Volt purchase, when they could have driven a 50 mpg car ?
How many Volt fans *conserve* oil, unrelated to MPG ?

I read 'saving oil' as a rationalization of the vast majority of Volt fans, not a reason.

 

Interesting stats. Not to stir the pot here - but it would seem that if Volt drivers are primarily driving 85%-90% electric, then they could have just as easily purchased a Leaf ... pocketing the $10,000 difference in price. But ... if an unknown segment of Volt drivers are not participating vis a vis on-star, the 90% statistic may be skewed.

.

 

I could make my daily commute and most of my weekend commutes using EV only in a Volt. Every now and again there are trips over that range, and also higher than what I would feel comfortable with in a Leaf. This is why I think the Volt (or its concept) will do better than the Leaf will.

Could someone take that 10k difference in price and purchase a used, higher FE vehicle for long trips? Sure. Would it be cost effective? Depends, mostly on insurance costs and frequency of longer trips. Then you also have a second vehicle to maintain too.

Gwmort, if you're in northern DE, I would love to take a look at your Volt. I know, I can go into the Chevy dealership, but then I'm just going to get pestered, have to deal with sales people, etc. The only time I make that sacrifice is when I actually am looking to buy. If you're willing, shoot me a PM and maybe we can work something out.

 

I think it is a good news also. I just don't agree with how they delivered the information in a misleading way.

If gasoline saved is the goal, report it like so. For example, Volt owners saved x number of gallons compared to a similar sized non-hybrid car. Why are they using MPG while mixing in with the electric miles?

Toyota did something like this when Prius sold in the US reached one million.

 

Respectfully Hill, I disagree.
If someone has driving patterns that allow them to drive less than 50-60 miles a day, but occasionally take trips over 100 miles (say once every 2 to 6 weeks) then the Volt makes sense.
We are still struggling with the Volt vs Leaf decision. Daily commute for my DW is about 30 miles. Twice a year we take a ~300 mile trip. We are considering the Leaf and then rent a Prius when we travel. But a Volt would be more flexible....
Weather or not the Volt, or any true EV works for any specific individual depends upon the individuals driving behavior.

 

If they did that, someone who can still perform arithmetic would pencil out the 'savings' compared to a Prius, and then the ensuing national laughter would power the country.

 

Because people who are interested in consuming less oil want to know how many miles they can go per gallon of oil they purchase. Its literally what MPG means, not "miles per unit energy". Gallons are volume of liquid, not some universal measurement of energy efficiency.

The problem we are running into is that when every vehicle ran on the same liquid energy source is that MPG was a fair indicator of efficiency. It is not any longer. MPGe is better because it ties into some of the public's present understanding, but still flawed. The best comparison is cost per mile, the problem there though is that it is so dependent on individual variables like distance driven over the AER, local electricity rates, whether the individual driver has any home electrical generation etc...

These kind of things are bound to come up when the game is changed.

 

MPG has always been a measure of energy efficiency (fuel economy). MPG means miles (driven under fuel) per gallon (of the same fuel).

If you want the total miles (both electric and gas) per gallon, use tMPG or come up with something new. Stop using the conventional MPG to mislead or confuse.

 

Numbers are required to support that. The demands of real-world driving rarely fit a pattern.

Reverting to ULEV 37 MPG everyday, rather than PZEV 50 MPG, doesn't make sense... especially considering how much less the plug-in Prius will likely cost.

Remember, PHV is a shared platform with the high-volume cordless model. Also, don't forget the EV drop to 25'ish during the winter.
.

 

First, I think you're wrong about a pattern. I'd bet the vast majority of the American workforce (whats left of it) drives more or less the same patterns to and from work everyday.

Secondly, the 2011 Volt is ULEV but GM said they would offer a 2012 PZEV version, since the 2011 PHV Prius doesn't exist and the 2012 PHV Prius is PZEV comparing the same versions of the same model year seems more appropriate, and since no one knows what the price will be of either using that as a differentiator is weak. I could word the same inquiry as why does it make sense for anyone burn gas everyday in the prius when they can avoid it all together in the Volt?

Finally, I know winter driving is a big concern of yours because of your extreme winters, but I haven't heard of much testing of the PHV prius in those conditions either, do you know if it will have a similar reduction in AER (or is it a non-issue because you're content with the 50mpg non-electric operation)?

 

Do you berate a new Prius owner who traded in an LX570 too?

gwmort is an ex Prius owner. My impression is that I'm an outlier among Volt buyers but I also bike commuted for years (17-25mi RT, making me an outlier-outlier I guess).

But, to be fair, although it's neat that I haven't spent a dollar on gas for the past 6 weeks, I don't stay up late worrying about how much I use. ("burn him! burn him at the stake!" "no, no, stab him so you don't release CO2!") My only "rationalization" for getting a Volt was that I like it.

A base Prius II (48hwy) is $5000 more than a Cruze Eco that gets 42mpg on the highway. Is 'savings' really the argument you want to make here?


BTW, to John's point on what's the "right" number for GM to claim for EV miles, I'm on track for 48 today, which included 5 miles @ 70 and a bunch hurrying between appointments on local raods at 50-60. I finished yesterday at 42 with 5 estimated remaining. Basically, I'm seeing 40+ any day it's 45F in the AM or better. Still to be seen how it works out when it's 100F...

 

I know of this report that compared 3 vehicles with specs very similar to Prius PHV, Volt and Leaf.

Preconditioning feature restored most of the range for Prius PHV in cold weather with the use of the heater. It didn't do as well with the AC usage.

Keep in mind the distance in the graphs is in km, not mile.

 

I provided numbers in the post of mine you quoted.
However, let's get even more specific.

Daily commute of ~30 miles/day.
125 mile trip once every 3 weeks.

Volt about 1 gallon/week (125-35miles)/30mpg =3 gallons per 3 weeks or 1 gallon/week.

Prius (30miles x 5 days/week) = 150 miles/week
(150 miles/week x 3 weeks) + 125 miles = 575 miles per 3 weeks
At 60mpg that is about 9 gallons for 3 weeks or about 3 gallons per week.

Now, I did round in favor of the Prius in a number of places. And I am not saying the Volt always makes sense. Just that there does exist scenarios in which Volt makes more sense from the standpoint of limiting use of gasoline.