Engine Strain 200k city vs highway

Why do you come on this site? Why don't you get a life and do something positive? You must work for government motors.

 

Yep. And if battery performance is unchanged, real-world MPG would be impacted only by change in other components of the car, like increased/decreased friction in the engine or wheel bearings, etc. And those factors are very subtle in every other ICE-based car I've ever read about (mileage and performance change very little with age).

 

Naw, it's endlessly entertaining and whacky fun

I love to give somebody the rope to make their own noose, and hang themselves with it

Remember that troll awhile back, with the Dodge Dakota?

 

My favorite quote from tpfun

"How will the PC spinmiesters respond to this ? The CR long term Prius battery test was nothing but a stupid publicity stunt, yet it was well received with approval by the above average intelligence (self rated) folks here."

And how will tpfun respond now?

 

I think it worthwhile to point out that performance can be intact while components degrade. It just means the component started with reserve.

tp's graph seemed to suggest this was the case, but upon further inspection I do not think that conclusion can be drawn; and in fact based on Jayman's posts clarifying the significance of max power discharge, if anything the Prius traction battery appears to be holding up remarkably well.

I drove my '04 into our city for shopping yesterday. Nice ambient temp, mostly forgiving traffic lights, but pretty windy. Car was good for 73 mpg over 30 miles from a cold start. If this is degradation I want more.

 

I think there is buffer by the nature of how the car uses the battery. Imagine if the battery had the capacity to move a dump truck 1000 miles on a charge. Would mileage really be much better? Probably not; as long as the battery is able to take in charge and deliver it without too much resistance when asked, anything beyond that is unused spare capacity.

At some point the battery inevitably will degrade to the point where it cannot take and receive current that is asked by the car and that's when mileage will suffer. Undoubtedly Toyota built enough buffer in so that some substantial wear on the battery could occur before a real-life MPG hit was noticed, and that's what that graph tells me happened.

And not to belabor (no, I'd never do that), but this also hints at potential problems in real-world range of the Volt & Leaf, because as their batteries fade there will be an immediate reduction in driving range.

 

As usual, 2kToaster's description of tpfun at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...train-200k-city-vs-highway-8.html#post1283288 seems on the mark:

I've wondered this too. Since he claims to own a Honda Accord, maybe he doesn't work for GM but it seems he sure has some vested interest in hurting Toyota and/or the Prius.

 

I think now is a good time to share the technical paper on the development of Prius NiMH battery pack.

It was tested to the "end of life" and the internal resistance of the cells remained virtually unchanged. Low internal resistence means it retains the same power and regen capabilities. CR did the final real-world confirmation after 9 years and Prius accelerated as quick and MPG as high as when it was brand new.

When Toyota say the battery pack is designed to last the life of the car, they meant it. They had the test data to back it up.

 

"old" vs "new" deals with G1 vs G2, right? And G1 battery is in most cases not yet having to be replaced despite being a decade old.

 

Right. Gen1 had the "old" cylindrical cells and Gen2 used the "new" rectangular cells. Gen3 has the same rectangular cells.

 

Thanks USB,
From about 100k km the internal resistance seems to trend up at 0.1 units/100k km. Since 0.9 units is new and 0.7 units is broken in at 100k km, that is great data.

 

Is that a drawing of me? Certainly looks like it!

 

Go eat some carbs and sugar then!

 

That pdf is just a powerpoint presentation with no supporting text.

Where does the report say this ?

The battery capacity is severely reduced at the EOL testing. The chart I posted shows this clearly.

In spite of this fact, you readily extrapolate from the results of another battery test to the startling conclusion of "a very minor change in overall performance".
Really ?

That's pure spin in my book.

 

Is that because you haven't covered percentages yet in high school?

 

Everybody here (including you, I can only assume) knows that you misrepresented the link hugely, and this is all you have in response?

Trashing Prius Fun
Trolling Prius Forum Until Not [because I got banned]

 

friends dad has 250K on his '05, no prob with battery. Mostly highway mileage.. has to be with ~50K a year?

 

One of the concerns with TDI (while back when I looked into getting one) was the 40Kmi timing belt changes.. not sure if it is still the case. And since it is not interference-free design you have to spend 300$ every 40K mi if it breaks you need new engine. Gasoline engines on other hand can run 100K mi belt changes.

Anyways comparing to 35MPG Protege it did not make any economic sense higher initial price, higher diesel and maintenance costs.

 

The "distance driven" is derived from the "on-vehicle charging/discharging pattern" based on an undisclosed formula, meaning it wasn't even a live test.