European Union may rise diesel fuel tax in some countries

Thanks for the post. I thought this snippet

particularly interesting.

 

It seems that Countries that have motor manufacturers that specialise in diesel cars have low priced diesel fuel (France, Germany, Spain).

Here in the UK diesel costs about 6p a litre (10c a liter or 37c a US gallon) more than petrol.

I think the penny is starting to drop (at long last) here in Europe that diesel is nasty for NOx pollution despite the latest emission control equipment.

 

When I was in Mainland Europe last summer it was amazing how much cheaper diesel was. You just didn't see many petrol cars at all.

I only discovered this week that some diesel owners are having their DPF's removed because they are so expensive to repair, which of course also improves fuel consumption slightly. So these cars are no longer Euro 4 or 5 compliant yet it appears entirely legal for owners to do this. Not even the MOT will pick it up. Diesel cars just have to be outlawed, there is just no other option.

 

Depends on the year etc. I know that it happens

 

I think the reason why diesel is starting to fall out of favor in Europe is the upcoming Euro6 emissions certification, which will become mandatory in 2014. Euro6 is almost identical to the EPA Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions certification, and that could make it very expensive to certify diesel cars for European sale.

 

You know, I would be glad if they did this. The only reason diesel is cheaper here is because the government doesn't want to affect transport company's too much. But this caused many people buying cars with diesel engines which are far more polluting than petrol cars, especially in urban area's. In Belgium there has absolutely been no effort to regulate the number of diesel cars which caused that 80% of all new cars are diesels there (the highest number of europe)! And as an effect, Belgium also has the worst air quality of europe, I drive a lot there and everytime I see a diesel car pulling away from a traffic light and leaving stinking black smoke clouds from the exhaust I just can't understand why they don't do anything about this. I've even seen brand new diesel cars giving black smoke, even those which have ECO- logo's like the Ford ECOnetics models..

I agree completely with Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear on this: Diesel is satan's fuel!!

 

There is that, but there could also be the realisation that diesel makes smog - and lots of it! We're now getting smog alerts here - unheard previously as the levels are going up and up.

Had a meeting with one of the local city environment and taxi departments who wanted to see my Prius and how it works as a taxi. They spent the morning asking me questions and having a good look around the car.

Turns out that they are very much aware of the problems of NOx and how diesel cars produce much more of this (and resultant smog) than petrol counterparts and hybrids even less as their engines are not running when stuck in slow or stationary traffic. I compared NOx emissions of the Prius against a new popular taxi model (Ford Mondeo) and the Prius was about 30 times lower! You could have 30 Prius for 1 new Mondeo. The older, Euro 4 compliant Mondeo diesels were about 200 times worse!

I get the impression there will be many many more Prius hybrids becoming taxis in the not too distant future.

 

For all of us where fuel is heavily taxed:
Once PHEVs and EVs are over the stage of "early adaptors" we will see duty on electricity for transportation.
Fuel duties are an important chunk in revenues, no administration will tolerate reduction.

Smart grid? (for safety reasons of course...)
Smart meter?
Dedicated charging systems?
Are these subjects discussed in your area? If yes - you are on track.

Giora.

 

Gas stations should be required to purchase carbon credits. The cost can then be passed on to the purchasers of gasoline on a per-gallon basis. The sellers of electric vehicles should be able to sell an amount of carbon credits that would be applied to the cost of the electric vehicle at the point of sale. You don't have to agree with me. This is just an idea.

Hopefully some media outlet will quote my post.

 

I'm in a different place, but many of value clean air and less imported oil. Revenue from gas taxes is going down as fuel economy goes up, and the trick is to raise gas taxes enough to pay for electrification. There is talk of a guzzler tax.

I'm on a smart grid with smart meters. The first 700 chargers are installed for free in my city with the agreement that the city can monitor usage. Many homes and businesses have meters that can turn off on peak loads. There are some public charging stations and more are planned.

I would think in Israel the need to use less gas would be higher, and the case for electrics would also make more sense as there are much shorter driving distances.

 

I was reading about this the other day on an article of the Sueddeutsche Zeitung. Apparently Merkel attended the meeting about this and said "I like it - let's do it" - only to go back to Berlin and saying "we are not doing it".

In Germany the current KFZ-Steuer (Car-tax) is based on how engine displacement (2€/cc - hence the Prius is 36€/year) and CO2 emissions (x€ per g/km) over 120g/km - this limit will go down in 2012 and further down (to, I believe, 100g/km) in 2014.
So - why the behaviour of Merkel considering also the car-tax policy?

Well, it's called - german car manufacturer's lobby - as the article mentioned.
Essentially, although the car-tax for diesels is higher ("they pollute more", due to PM), TDIs have been subsidised (although the article does not say how) and the new taxation on fuel would make diesel more expensive than gas (not to mention that most diesels sold in Germany are far from being eco-friendly, considered the HPs they have and hence the L/100km FE they have - far from being "eco-friendly"). What it is not said clearly is what the taxation be, based on the new rule - higher or lower than current tax (about 60% of gas price)? so relatively it would more expensive, in absolute terms it might well be cheaper than today (both diesel and gas). Which obviously Merkel's government does not want - they have all these cars in Germany, they want the money.

So, if they loose money from taxes they might be not allowed anymore to levy because of a new and more sensible tax on fuel, they have already come up with the idea of having drivers paying toll for the autobahn. And I would say, why not? I think Germany is the last EU-mainland country that does not have it.

What was funny is that they said they want to compensate the toll with tax breaks on the car-tax - but if I they do, then what? I pay 0€/year? and will that compensate for the money for the toll to pay?

And moreover, what about the Pendlerpauschal? this is a tax-refund of about 0.3€/km for each km driven to and from the workplace. Yes, they refund you a part of the costs to go to work, regardless of the means of transportation. They tried to take that out 2-3 years ago, it went all the way up to the upper court and it was immediately re-instated...

So - interesting times ahead for Germany....and for Merkel...

 

My reading of the proposed tax was to equalize the carbon tax on petrol and diesel. This of course will only work if other unequal subsidies are eliminated.

 

In Europe, it is based on % of gasoline selling price.

So you can see how govts actually like gas prices rising to $10 per gallon, as none of them lowered their taxes which are significant part of fuel costs.

They make more money now. A lot more. Great for money depraved govts.

What will happen when this money gets significantly reduced? They will HAVE to find another way of taxing the population to make up the losses in the budget.

 

Thanks, I did not realize european gas tax was a percent and not a fixed cost per gallon. They have already raised the tax rate per gallon. Ignore that part of my statement for europe.

 

Good idea, except that here in US with exception of west coast EV vehicle will produce more CO2 per mile then hybrid. Perhaps would work in France with their nuclear plants.

 

Is this taking into account the massive electricity costs in producing petrol from crude oil and also including all the transport and related costs?

I really did resist biting but couldn't help myself.

 

do not recall if it were just carbon from fuel or the production footprint was included. Also if CO2 recapturing at electric plants was taken into consideration. I'll try to find an article.. Don't even remember magazine, was sitting and waiting for doctor appointment.

Basically they ran comparison on per-state basis using data on electricity production. With exception of California, Oregon and Washington (there was another one.. forgot) EV would not cleaner, and in many mid-west states like Illinois it would produce more CO2 per mile.

Granted US of A generates majority of its electricity from coal, with oil and natural gas being second. Nuclear and alternative make up a small percentage.

I remember in my home state it would be about the same or slightly worse.

Nissan looked at the data and they rolled out Leaf in the metropolitan areas where they could reduce CO2 footprint.