How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

Thanks for the discussion Scott. Very brave of you to walk into a TROLL den

 

We know that's not the case. Several of us, including myself, have observed firsthand the 50 MPG after depletion.

If fact, here's a photo from my longest single drive with a PHV:



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Yeah his result has to be some kind of fluke, but the interesting point for me is that these tests vary widely depending on use and conditions.

I know in my conventional prius I can get stuck in a traffic jam and end up with a time graph like that that shows mpg in the same range for 15 or 20 minutes, but I couldn't get it zipping along at 65 mph. A 40 mph test in California of one car is not directly comparable to a 65 mph test in Alberta of another.

I suspect some of the conclusions in the article will pan out though, like the value added from the PHV package compared to a "conventional" prius will vary from individual to individual based on their use, needs and most significant decision factors (purchase price, efficiency, emissions, fit and trim, driving feel, etc...).

The point I am trying to make here is that similar considerations will need to be made on a case by case basis between the PHV prius and the Volt and not everyone will get the same result, there is no one "killer app".

 

But the picture clearly shows an average speed of 38 mph. If he had been stuck in traffic the average speed would quickly drop to about 15 mph.



A little pic of mine of a trip of 21 miles at a speed of 50 mph (average 27mph). Ok it's 73 UK mpg which is what, mid 60's US? But still not bad for me and proves it can be done.

 

That value is extremely misleading. I had very little traffic to deal with and much of the driving was between 55 and 70 MPH.

How long do you think I had the PHV on while showing it off to friends & family, along with taking photos, without it being in motion?

All that non-driving time gets counted against the average. Too bad it doesn't also display duration data.
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It's hard to tell, and I have no firsthand experience with this vehicle, but it seems to me that if you kept it charged, but employed the ICE for "pulses", then your gas mileage will probably suck because you're only using the ICE for hard work. IOW, you're not using the ICE as a range extender, you're using it as a power booster. This usage seems atypical to me.

 

I meant it in a positive way. An average of 38 mph probably means a journey of 65 miles was travelled at about 60-65 mph.

My pic shows an average of 27 mph but I was mainly at 50-55 mph.

Even taking pics of the good economy people still don't believe it. I even reset the mpg display on my car to show customers what I'm getting for their trip and some still don't believe it. Their loss.

 

Its not that much of a fluke. The prius averaged 4 miles per day on gas alone. It does not do that well in warm up, so some of those days were only peak power and warm up. I can see the flip side haters going, OMFG the prius phv can't even get 30 mpg. That is terrible. Of course this is bad case, and long trips at 30 mph speeds are best case for the cs mileage. No real information, but when one reads volt figures from CR they need to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

I knew that. But it's really tough trying to get the point out that there are some shortcomings when it comes to simplifying displays.

Just look at the Energy-Monitor verses the Eco-Meter. Those are 2 entirely different ways of conveying hybrid operation information to the driver. Adding EV to the mix adds to the understanding challenge.

As for believing any of it, the "runs deep" motto for GM describes their denial quite well.
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FYI, when you do any maintenance on the Volt (oil required every couple years, as an example), they designed it so if the car is powered on and you raise the hood it will start the ICE/Gas_Generator.

I did that today and saw the car warm up to over 150 degrees in 2-3 minutes.

Aside: I was doing something out in the evening this week with the wife and forgot to plug in the Volt for the first time when we got home. The next day I had to use some gas. Went about 180 miles this week on 0.8 gallons of gas (of course I charge at night normally for about $0.70).

 

2-3 minutes is not that bad. Does the gas engine idle at different rpm when the hood is up?

 

It was at 1400 rpm. Not sure how they picked that. Perhaps it is just "efficient" or they thought it would only run for a very short time to, for example, to circulate the new oil. It appeared steady so I assumed it was very intentional. I know [my] other normal ICE only vehicles start off at a faster rpm and then slow down pretty quickly ... seems like less than a minute.

P.S. Rem like I said "idle" is not really a term I'd use for the Volt. This maintenance situation is the only time it is really on like this. Otherwise, when the car is not moving the ICE/GG is off.

 

Interesting. Can you check the IGN value when the ICE is running with the hood up? Is it the same rpm / IGN as when the ICE is used to warm up the battery if temp is below 25 deg?

P.S. Prius in S1 (warm up) target 1,250 rpm with IGN value in negative (-10).

 

Haven't posted for a while. Yesterday I was in the temps from 45-65 degrees. After work I went to a sporting event so I ended up driving farther than I normally do and I used up my battery range. I got 44.4 miles on the battery.

Something else that happened was that as I was driving home I never actually noticed when the Volt switched over from using battery power to using the ICE/gas_generator as it was so quiet and smooth. I just looked down when I was close to home and noticed the display had switched from a battery to a fuel gauge. In the past, I noticed the display switch because I was paying attention to my battery.

Just as you guys are, I'm enjoying passing the gas stations at $4 / gallon!

 

Thanks for the update, Scott.

Glad you're enjoying the car!

 

I am loving my Volt as well, here are the results I have been getting so far:

1041 miles traveled; 609 EV, 432 using petrol at an average consumption of 40 mpg (actual use 10.61 gal); lifetime mpg reading is presently 98.1 (doesn't factor mpge of electricity consumed); my average range on a charge is 32-38 miles with temps in the 30s-50s.

Should note that about half my non-EV miles were from the initial drive home from the dealership in New York.

 

The Volt is getting some unfair comments on here. How about some of the Volt owners posting pictures of their new ride so we can see them?

 

Since the Volt uses two types of fuel, why not track the electricity consumption also?

Rolling in miles driven with electricity into gasoline driven miles is very misleading. That's like I add my rollerblading and walking miles into the Prius to boost it's MPG number.

 

I completely agree, that is why I gave the total miles in EV mode and gas mode and the gas mode mileage figure. I don't have a separate power meter for the Volt at home (nor work) so I can't really measure that. When next month's power bill comes in I'll try to post usage values compared to last year, but there are a lot of variables there.

The lifetime mpg number is useless for measuring total efficiency, which is what people are used to using mpg for. However it is useful for tracking petroleum consumption, I have literally travelled 98 miles for every gallon of gas I have burned.

All the electrical information the car (and app) provides is in terms of miles of range remaining or percentages, we get no good kw data numbers. The car knows (or could easily know) how much power it is using, I would like to see the display factor that into the EPA mpge formula and give a mpge reading in electric and a combined mpge value based on our actual driving.

 

thanks for reply. i also know a few people who are averaging 100 miles +. have you considered getting a Kill a watt meter? are you charging 240 or 120? i have a much higher charge requirement and i only charge 120 volt so i can monitor my electricity...

obtw, i should update stats but this morning i hit $100 in electricity on my Leaf after 87 days of ownership and 3178 miles. i can live with that