Dealer won't change/unaware of Transaxle fliud change?!?

Dan, I had the same problem with my dealer service. They would not do a transaxle oil change a 30k miles. And it is ATF-WS which is oil and NOT coolant. Scares me to think these guys are suppose to be Toyota service technicians and only know a few facts about the cars, especially hybrids. I'm glad I do my own oil change and if I could find a level lift I would change the transaxle oil myself.

 

I just had my Transaxle fluid changed at 60,000. They told me it was un necessary until 100,000, but when I said wanted it done now they sadly took my $107

 

Show them this thread, in particular post 35 for procedure.
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ting/72896-diy-transmission-fluid-change.html
This is NOTHING to do with either of the coolant reservoirs. It is ATF-WS drain and fill which should be changed but is not on the maintenance list by Toyota.

 

If you take your planned trip before you get it changed I think you need not worry, just go and have a good time. Get it changed when you return.

It is nice your dealer advises you that Toyota doesn't require it but they should do it anyway if you request it.

Your dealer's service department may not realize there is more than one reason manufacturers sometimes don't recommend such maintenance. One reason is certainly that some things don't need to be done. Another is that they want to tell customers that the car requires very little maintenance.

But with the Prius transaxle the reason may be that Toyota wants to be sure people use their ATF-WS fluid because our transaxles have high voltage electrical components in them and other ATF fluids may not be designed for that. If it is a required maintenance item Toyota might run into problems in the U.S. if they say you can only use a fluid they sell exclusively. I'm not a lawyer but I believe our warranty laws would require them to supply the fluid free if they do that. Toyota probably believes it is better to leave the original in than it would be to have people using other brands of ATF. I do agree that you should never use anything but Toyota's ATF-WS for this application.

The used oil analysis I had performed on mine after 20K miles does indicate that it is worth doing if you plan of keeping the car for a long time.

 

Did you ask to speak with the service manger? That would be a good next step. Sounds like you may have just gotten unlucky to deal with one of their less knowledgeable reps. I would be surprised if the manager would not accommodate you by performing a service that makes them money, even if they think it is not necessary.

To reinforce that you should have the transmission oil changed, I changed mine myself at 26,000 and it was discolored, indicating that there is work and wear going on inside. I'm of the opinion that changing the transmission oil at 30,000 intervals is cheap insurance against failure. Does anyone have any idea what the replacement cost is for the Prius transmission?

 

That sounds very plausable. Still, fwiw: second Honda Civic Hybrids also have a specific fluid for their CVT: the maintenance schedule stipulates only the Honda fluid can be used. They stipulate a service interval, again, too long for my taste.

Also, Toyota Canada stipulates an interval for Transaxle fluid change, I believe 48000 km or 4 years (going from memory, my book's at home). I was pretty much convinced there was no change interval, but careful re-reading: I believe now there is.

The Canadian document outlining maintenance covers every Toyota vehicle, and is very broken up and confusing.

 

Am I the only one who does not understand why you are changing a fluid that the maker of the car says is not necessary until 100K? If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then please send it my way...I even accept Payments through PayPal.

 

Some members have sent off samples of the ATF-WS fluid to have it analyzed. If I recall, some reports have stated up to a 15% loss of viscosity in the first 30,000 miles. Its just a precautionary measure if you plan on keeping the car for an extended amount of time. Fellow members please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Do you really trust a dealer to do this? Is this the same dealer that didn't know to use 0-20 oil? Can you be sure they will use the right oil, if they don't you just paid them 100-200 bucks to shorten the life of your trans.

I have seen a few member on here with over 200k on their transaxels and never touched the fluid. I'm not convinced it will do any good. I also would only do mine myself, most dealers can't handle putting the correct oil type/ ammount in a engine. I can't trust them with the tansaxel fluid change, there is no dipstick to double check their work what if they fill it a quart low, or wrong fluid.

 

Toyota has a conflict of interest here.

1. They want to be able to minimize periodic maintenance requirements in their sales brochures.
2. They are not responsible for repair costs out of warranty - we pay for it.

I know that some Prii Gen2 transmission have gone 200k miles without changing the ATF (one is reported at 300k miles). There have been a small number that have had Transmission failures at about 100k miles and all of these were still on their original ATF.

We (a group of technically oriented Prius owners) have done lab testing of used ATF and found that an early (at about 30k miles) ATF refresh is advisable. Periodic ATF Drain/Refills at 60k miles are cheap insurance (about $100 at a reasonable dealer) against a costly (~$8k for a new one, ~$2k for a salvaged unit) transmission replacement. Attached is an annotated lab report on my 2004 Prius ATF at 61k, 120k and 180k miles.

You can, of course, choose to just trust Toyota's suggestion for your Prius. It is your call.

JeffD

 

This is a good question, I hope I have a good answer.

There are simple (in car) tests for engine and inverter coolant, brake fluid, and brake pads/drums. Engine oil and ATF for the transaxle are much more difficult to test, you send them off to a lab for analysis. The folks who do this report the engine oil change interval is fine and the Toyota reccomended ATF interval is too long. I just pay attention to those willing to do this research.

My last Toyota lasted 20 years, I am treating this one as if it will too. Spending an 'extra' $20 a year for a service that the tech cannot test seems to be a placebo I can live with.

At least I am not buying miracle gas additives and splitfire spark plugs to go with a tornado supercharger.

 

I'm still wondering about this.

I have seen many GM transmisions go 200k on the original fluid, and they have clutches that slip and would cause more heat/material to end up in the fluid. I thought our cars don't have this causing wear on the fluid.

Am i right to assume the prius is easer on trans fluid than a chevy work truck?

Has anybody have their ATF sent in and tested with bad results? Did they say it was all used up and causeing harm?

I still can't trust a dealer to do this cause their is no way for me to check their work.
1. They will just charge me and not do it.
2. They will underfill the fluid, i think this is worse than not changing it at all.
3. They will use the wrong fluid.

maybe I should try to get a bunch of fellow priuschat members in NC together for a transaxel fluid change event.LOL

 

Did you read post 13 above?

JeffD

 

Yes, I had my transaxle ATF tested once at 30K miles, and the report was that viscosity had declined 15% and that the used fluid contained significant amounts of Si and Fe particles. Hence the conclusion was that it was reasonable to replace the ATF.

I'm not making a statement regarding whether the Prius transaxle is harder on ATF than a Chevrolet truck transmission. I don't care about the Chevy as I don't own one. If I owned that truck, then I would replace the ATF at 30K mile intervals.

If you look at the 200K mile club you will find a group of Prius owners who have not bothered to replace the transaxle ATF fluid and have not had any problems. A search will also reveal postings from a group of Prius owners whose transaxles have failed, not necessarily at high miles.

If you feel lucky then you'll expect to become a member of the first group by performing the minimum maintenance per the manufacturer's schedule. However periodic transaxle ATF changes won't hurt, and may improve your chances of reaching 200K miles without becoming a member of the second group. Further, many of the owners who DIY the transaxle fluid change have posted their sense of accomplishment at getting the visibly dirty fluid out of the transaxle.

 

I think you are right. So much so that the chevy has a spin on oil filter for the ATF to trap those solids from the over 12 quarts of ATF. The Prius has so much less wear that they skipped any filter, so any solids stay in the 3.7 quarts of lubricant.

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/en/overview/2011_Silverado_HD_Catalog_FINAL.pdf

 

Here is the analysis from my gen3 Prius transaxle after approximately 20K miles. I will have it analyzed again after the next change, probably this summer. I will have 30K miles on the fluid and 50K on the car when I do the next change, if it comes out OK I will change every 50-60K after that.

 

I was just told my Prius doesn't have transmission fluid by my local Toyota Dealership.