CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

I really like the verb you have chosen. TAKE.
Then I stop my job and take the first plane to US. I plan vacations for the rest of my life. I will TAKE a big big LOAN from US Govt which means that I don't have to return that money back right?. After all, that s why they call US banks as humanistic organizations. :mod:

I asked for a TAX SUBSIDY, but they told me that, TAX SUBSIDY means that Govt RETURNS to me portion of my money back, that I have EARNED before, if things could go bad, or if I need to improve or create new business in US, because thats s their stabilization policy in economics with everyone (fighting imports). But I am a lazy person and I want things easy. No thank you, I ll stick with the free money.

Mehh! Thats why they call US a happy paradise!

 

Funny or not, they are of much use! And tpfun has been entertaining a lot, despite unbiased opinions never reviewed, even if "dismantled" by hybrid users/owners/technicians.
After all, in our society there is always a unfashionable member, resilient and notably stubborn.:cheer2:

 

Both Prius v (NiMh) and Prius+ (Lithium) will be available in Japan. The price difference is about $8k USD. I don't know the differences in equipment levels but that's a lot more expensive for having 3rd row which Lithium HV battery enabled.

The quote from Toyota that tpfun provided (without source) said "In the future, given cost reductions". Yea, given cost reductions. Don't get me wrong, I want Lithium too.

 

In 2005, when I purchased my first Prius (which was quite new in my area) local tpfuns were saying I am taking one big risk with traction battery which will die on me soon... now they are saying it's obsolete... no wonder they stayed with "other-non-hybrid" car.
As far as I remember, all new HEV models coming this year are using NiMH chemistry.
NiMH is a good and proven chemistry for HEVs and will be around as long as HEVs have a market.

Giora.

 

LOL. It went from unproven, proven extremely reliable to obsolete in two generations? At this rate, Lithium will be obsolete soon.

 

Obsolete in what way? OHC engines made OHV engines obsolete some 50 years ago, yet if you want a big V8 today, there is a good chance it is OHV, so obsolete is relative.

Lithium is lighter than NiMH, so for some uses it is more attractive, but NiMH has some real strengths to promote it's use where absolute light weight is not an overriding mandate. Do not expect NiMH it be like flat head engines, they really did become obsolete.

 

Push rods only have disadvantages with inline engines. They also have disadvantages when it comes to high rpms. When it comes to V configurations especially with only two valves per cylinder and low peak rpm there is less complexity, less inertia, and smaller for displacement. They have been able to add variable valve timing and this has extended the life of push rods in cars. There may always be trucks with push rods. The planes I fly have push rods, the fast cars DOHC.

I would say the situation is more like inline 4 cyclinder cars when it comes to Lithium versus Nimh. The transition won't be fast, but it will be complete. There are no advantages for Nimh in cars that will not be surpassed by lithium chemistries. Right now Toyota has a huge investment in Nimh so it will be around for a while. Nimh is a little like the ipad 1, you know in 5 years it will be out dated, but your not sure if you want to pay for the ipad 2 right now because the ipad 3 will be cheaper and better.

I just thought I would continue to derail this crazy train. Damn MITI for funding the prius development, oops I mean thank MITI. A subsidy isn't a subsidy. CR isn't for buying the newest technology, who knew. The suprising thing is how many pages the thread has gotten to. Next topic - Should the leaf have a chut to add coal? That's what it runs on. Why not add a steam turbine? Talk amoung yourselves.

 

If NiMH is obsolete, Toyota is laughing all the way to the bank.The technical truth is that Li-x has very little to offer an HSD application. Not reliability, not safety, certainly not cost. It does have panache among the ignorant, a small weight and volume advantage, and I think in some varieties increased power density. Toyota will switch to Li-x when it is as cheap and reliable as NiMH.

You know, Nissan jumped into EV because they were shut out of the hybrid market, mostly by a mountain of Toyota patent and Toyata's commanding market lead. The same can be said of GM. Li-x then became a requirement or those companies rather than a choice because of the battery capacity needed for EV.

Apply a moment of common sense: Toyota has unrivaled tech wrapped up at consumer prices EV cannot match, that doubles the city fuel economy of > 99% of the cars currently running around.

 

My only beef has been a continued statement that Toyota does not take taxpayer money. They do. Continuing to say that Toyota does not take US taxpayer money is a lie.

 

By that logic (which I do not agree with) GM takes no government money either.

 

Yes, the fans of each side do tend to take the topic, WAY off topic. CR's opinion of the 1st Prius was tepid (to put it mildly) and got better with each model. Will CR say nicer things about future Volts? Will Volt continue to be plagued by the often GM (when it comes to building a Prius Killer) sucky factor? Time will tell. The nation does NOT want to print more phoney paper money to bail GM out again.

.

 

^^ No worries.
Send me $1,000,000 and I'll send you $1000 back.
We will both post here that each of us received money from the other.

Deal ? No ? Why, do you perhaps think the exchange is so inequitable that you for practical purposes received nothing at all ?

 

Lithium-Ion has plenty to offer HSD and Toyota will slowly use more and more of it as they resolve its problems. Weight is the enemy of efficiency and LI beats NiMH hands down.

LI also has a charging efficiency advantage over NiMH which means less power lost in battery heating.

Toyota hybrid to get lithium ion batteries | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews

 

A little arrogenat aren't we.

 

It may be so (for slow charging) but Lithium cannot charge as fast as NiMh (100 amp) so it is not good for regen braking.

There are Lithium chemistries (Hitachi) capable of fast charging but the energy density is close to NiMh and it costs a lot more.

There are differences between high power and high energy batteries. You can tune it for either but not both.

 

Energy density is a big deal for EVs, not for HSD. How much fuel economy increase do you think a ... say 30 pound decrease will make ? Not even discernible to a customer.

The flip side of density is less volume for the same charge. Your link says "When it is necessary for the size of the vehicle to use compact batteries, we will use lithium ion." Do you see that volume savings being a big deal in the Prius ? I don't, given NiMH's other clear cut advantages now. If my numbers are right, the HSD battery weighs 28 kg. I am including a picture of a competing battery chemistry that is 33% more energy dense than NiMH to show possible volume savings.

Nah. Reliability and cost win big time.

 

Lucky you. Not so for others.
Are you prepared for an unexpected $6k expense ?

http://priuschat.com/forums/generation-1-prius-discussion/89446-inconsolable-need-gen1-help.html

"Proven" technology is a well known euphemism for "out of date" technology.

 

tpfun, repeating info is not a good strategy. You might get better if you read what people here have written before.
If you want to be heard, don't reduce other's voices.
Or else, find another forum.

 

How many unexpected events in life cost that much and are more likely to happen? Cherry picking extremes rather than considering the norm says a lot about intent.
.

 

Considering you are driving a non-hybrid Accord, that must be an antique technology don't you think?

When will you put your money where your mouth is?