CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

Sure he does. "Everybody knows that."

 

How many pages of this tripe.

Don't buy a volt if you are commuting mainly70 miles in a Connecticut winter, it can't be clearer than that. Buy one if you want one.

Just from the last little span of time cash for clunkers, the hybrid tax credit, Toyota is going to take money from the electrification tax credit. This is not to mention any of the older subsidies or the ones from the japanese or european governments. All car companies take government money. Toyota took a lot of government money for the missisippi plant and texas plants too. Its all public domain. Do you really need someone else to look these things up for you?

 

That was a good read. Depressing, like watching 'Titanic' ... but good. Here's to hoping that didn't sound like "BASHING". Mighty hard to discuss things sometimes, if you can't find flowery sunshine with it.

 

Great article. The story about Gray was fascinating.

Well, that's it. I'd rather live in Japan.

 

Corrected, apologies to folks in Montana, blame the alcohol.

 

Toyota did not receive funding from the Japanese government for Prius development. The US on the other hand has been handing money to Detroit hand over fist for 30 years:

PNGV
Bush's hydrogen car
GM and Chrysler bail-outs
Detroit plant renewal subsidies
BK restructuring that dumped toxic waste-sites on the US taxpayer

---
That is just from memory.

 

Exactly! Big difference between having tax credits attached to your product and actually having the government write you a check.

 

The Volt's prospective buyers this year are the early adopters of the new PHEV40+ paradigm.
Just like the Prius I/II buyers were of the HV.

Thus CR's conclusions are not unexpected.

 

Really? Really? You need to ask? Toyota is on the 'take' too. Get over it. Stop using it as a reason to bash the Volt. It is a LIE to say that Toyota has not received government money. Repeating that lie, and questioning those to dispel it does not make it not true.

Mississippi To Toyota: Can We Have Our Money Now? | The Truth About Cars

http://www.floridastategasprices.co...s_hurts_Toyota_Hybrid/34665_434221/index.aspx

It's True: Toyota Asks Japanese Government-Backed Bank For $2 Billion | The Truth About Cars

I

 

We've went from being a "game changer" to now just an "early adopter". That's downplaying expectations after the fact.

As for a paradigm shift, there wasn't any such thing for Prius. You just filled up the tank less often.

As for Volt claiming the same thing in the age of people routinely plugging in their portable devices every night, that's a weak claim.
.

 

I'm not quite sure. The money goes to the same place but maybe the initial subsidy didn't help that much, as we know the later ones definitely added to toyota's bottom line. Japan just ended a subsidy, and surprise the prius dropped in sales volume.

Don't Subsidize My Car | Patrick J. Michaels | Cato Institute: Daily Commentary

But you can not say that Japan and the US did not pay subsidies for those buying hybrids.

Chrysler's Jim Press And Toyota Differ on Prius Narrative - BusinessWeek

Now press is definitely a lier, as he said exactly the opposite when he worked for toyota. The difference mainly could be in the details. The Japanese government gives their companies massive amounts of money for R&D.

http://thinkcarbon.wordpress.com/20...ent-of-hybrid-and-electric-vehicles-in-japan/

That is as opposed to gore's 80mpg fiasco instead of raising cafe targets, or the CARB/California/Bush hydrogen give away none of which resulted in anything for the companies or the country. At least Japan got something for some of their subsidies to Toyota.

 

None of the links said the Japanese government funded the development of Prius.

 

I don't see the difference to be honest, but the US government rebate was not to Toyota, it was for *any* hybrid.

I suppose in the fantasy land that tpfun lives the fact that people panned GM hybrid products and refused to buy them in any significant numbers becomes a direct Toyota subsidy.

We clearly cannot fix stupid.

 

Not only that, but the link hamden gave is specious anyway:

It's True: Toyota Asks Japanese Government-Backed Bank For $2 Billion | The Truth About Cars

Toyota is getting a $2billion LOAN, that will likely be repaid. I'll take that any day over a $40billion BAILOUT that we'll never see again.

 

I think honestly they were rushed. Having an onboard generator requiring premium fuel is seriously weak. Diesel is even more expensive than premium, though. It should provide more power but in a generator capacity I am not sure. I know that most small home generators run on gas (I think), so perhaps in that size it works better (?).

 

I think it is fair to look upon the Japanese gov backed bank loan to Toyota as subsidy, but the details matter:

1. It was not related to hybrid development in any way;
2. The value is the difference between what Toyota will pay in interest, and what they would have paid in interest on the commercial market.

A similar comparison cannot be made for GM because no commercial lender was willing to take on GM risk, which of course was 100% BK. The commercial estimate was effectively 0% chance of recouping the loan looked at this from one perspective. I think a more realistic barometer of the market risk was the secondary bond market value compared to the par value. GM bonds were selling for about 15 cents on the dollar leading up to the bailout.

 

None of that will matter to buyers now. They will see Prius as a mature affordable technology that would cut oil consumption and emission.

"If you drive about 70 miles, a Prius will actually get you more miles per gallon than the Volt does,"

Prius PHV may always get more MPG than the Volt. Maybe except 20-40 miles range. If Volt only shine between 20 miles to 40 miles commute range, selling it to another buyer would be difficult.

 

No, and I never claimed that. I am debunking the claim that Toyota has received no taxpayer money. My links clearly show it has received both US and Japanese taxpayer money.

 

Consumer Reports Knocks Government Motors' Chevy Volt in Review

This right-winged article really sucks. They make several ludicrous statements in calling global warming "phony," charging stations "complicated," and hybrids/EVs a feel-good "band-aid." They also blame the liberal agenda squarely for the production of the Volt, but as a matter of fact, both Republicans and Democrats were crooked for GM.

However the article does get 2 things right. And that I highlighted in bold.

 

^^ why do you read this claptrap ?

Those dunces have probably never heard of, let alone participated in, university reasearch which is close to 100% public funded.

The other funny is that the Obama admin recommended that the Volt project be disbanded after they gained control and had a peek into the car's details. Never try to confuse an ideologue with facts.