CR knocks Volt, praises Prius

GM is making around 10 Volt cars a day.

TEN

More energy has been wasted yapping about this car than spent producing it.

 

Haha yeah, 13 years ago! 2 million units later i'm pretty sure they're making a profit.

 

The first 10000 Prius probably cost Toyota 100K each.

???

How would you know that ?

Just like the outlandish claims for the "soon to be released" Prius PHV ?

Most pubs rely on the manufacturer for funding. I wouldn't take their word for it.

 

one good thing about the volts design; the "battery tunnel" is large enough that as batteries improve the ev range will rise dramatically.

 

Just making up stuff at this point. Getting desperate, eh?
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Greenwashing I see, careful not to actually point out anything.
.

 

Toyota had to sell the Prius at a loss early on.

The fact that costs are high at the beginning of a brand new design's lifecycle is not a knock against it.

 

Volt's 37 corded MPG is less than a decade young Classic Prius which gets 41 MPG. That's how bad it is.

 

Even if that were true, Prius was sold at $19,995, not $41k. Oh, and it seated 5 and had SULEV emission rating. These are the goals Volt may never reach, even after 10 years late to the party.

 

Tpfun, you're an idiot and I'll prove it. Watch as I embarass you. Don't show this to your loved ones:

I meant a $40k cost to the consumer - not what it costed the company to manufacture. As USB pointed out, the Prius was sold for half the cost on its launch.

I expected you to be too dense to understand this.

Here's what I know: The Volt is a direct result of a massive government bailout. Can you say the same about the Prius? Of course not.

Hold on - we're simply comparing the original Volt and the original Prius. Even if you brought the Prius PHV into discussion, Toyota is not making claims of 230 mpg.

 

I sold one of the first Prii on the E Coast back in July of 2000. At that time Toyota didn't know what the eventual demand might be thus they only planned on a 5000 unit allotment for the US in 2001.

The figure bandied about at that time ( unconfirmed ) was that the 'cost' was $35000 each based on such a small production / sales volume while the vehicle was listed at ~$20500 MSRP.

But if you understand industrial accounting and costing that figure was also bogus. Extend the production and sales volume denominator to 150,000 units worldwide over 3 yrs and that 'cost' figure drops well below $20,000.

 

How do you know Japanese tax payers did not fund some of the development.

And what about those hybrid vehicle tax credits? That was funded by tax payers.

 

True. The Volt is overpriced but not by much. It should have been $39,000 and $31,500 after credit.

Not sure what to say about that or what you were saying.

So the US government never paid those $3500 tax credits out? Toyota did not get the research dollars from the Japanese government?
I would say false on that one. No matter how you cut it, both companies have benefited from all kinds of $ from taxpayers. GM is getting more out of the US government, Toyota has gotten more from the Japanese government.

Well actually it did, it just was not on the same level of outrageous as the Volt and its 230mpg press release. The Prius gen2 had a 60mpg rating that many people could not get. It was not Toyota's fault, that is just the way the test went as it played into the Prius's strength in city driving. Toyota was required to report the 60mpg.

COTY has been given to cars before release before. That is not a bad thing. I agree with the COTY for the Volt, just as I agree with it for the Prius when it was awarded.

Nope. Stick to the facts, some of yours are right, some are wrong. The Volt is not evil.

 

Indeed.
Quite obvious to anyone else except some on this board.

 

In fact, the entire vehicle is designed around the huge battery compartment and it looks like an easy future swap. I wouldn't be surprised to see battery upgrades and even 3rd party/high end versions.

I do not expect the Prius PHV to share the same convenience due to the after the fact design of the battery compartment (s?).

 

Ooooo another contestant. Step right up and watch me destroy you:

If you do the math, it's almost impossible to recoup the extra thousands of dollars spent on the Volt, versus a Prius. Being "overpriced but not by much" still makes it overpriced.

I was saying that the Prius had nothing to compare itself to. It's hard to bash a car that's the first of its kind. On the other hand, it's easy to bash a Volt because 10 years later, the Volt isn't much more than a Prius.

I should've specified "American" taxpayer dollars. Americans are evaluating Prius vs Volt. Americans will be driving both these cars. Who cares what the Japanese did for Toyota. If people in Japan drive the Volt I doubt they'll ever think twice that the "technology" came from our pockets and they shouldn't...but we should!

HA! You are comparing Toyota's 60mpg claims to Volt's 230mpg claims. Toyota was off by 20%. But GM was off by 300%! Get the f outa here. Ok not yet...

It is a bad thing. It's called hype. And the Volt is nothing but. The Gen II Prius went on sale in North America in September 2003. 2 months later it was named COTY. Oppositely, the Volt was named COTY in November 2010 and ....where is it now?

You're right. The Volt is not evil, but the men in suits behind the Volt are, and that's good enough for me.

 

As I said above, it doesn't matter what the Japanese tax payers did. They can be pissed at the Prius if they want. American taxpayers did not bailout Toyota.

$3500 ≠ $7500

 

ok cant dispute the conclusion by CR... but remember, the Leaf (oh thats right this is the Prius forum!)...the uhh, well

the Volt;
$41,000
4 seats
crappy gas mileage

dont know the actual electrical usage, but doubt it is as bad as 5 cents per KWH. my Leaf is under 3½. figure the Volt is heavier, so maybe 4 cents 4½ at the most.

as far as production goes, it was fully expected to be a lull. GM in its rush to out do the Leaf, pushed out a lot in December and many were not ready. they had hiccups, they took a step back, readjusted a few things and hopefully will iron out the kinks. as i understand it, there are not many.

The Leaf just posted sales of like 70 this month after 110 in Jan, so both models are feeling their way a bit, but Leaf factory ramp up should be full swing by April, so wont be long until we start seeing a few thousand a month here. i am guessing the Volt will be about the same.

as far as the comment

The Prius never had to compete with the Prius

i am sorry that it is perceived that the Prius had a much easier time succeeding than the Volt because it was first and had no competition (kinda hard to figure out what the competition is now 10 years later, btw...) but i dont really see it that way

the Prius succeeded when gas was $2.00 a gallon i actually paid as low as $1.89 in my 2004 Prius. gas was cheap as to be a non issue, but the Prius still succeeded and continues to do so today.

the comment referenced above implies that the Volt is in competition with the Prius, that is laughable. they are not the same kind of car which is good for the Volt. many have tried to challenge the Prius. Honda tossed a few different models at the Prius, what happened to them? well they went to 3rd place in their own country is what happened.

ya after all this time, the Prius still does not have a realistic threat now or on the horizon

 

Link?
The rags that said the Hummer is cheaper to run than the Prius also tossed out the urban legend about Gen One Prius selling at a loss. NO one knows the numbers, and even if you had hard numbers, then those numbers get discounted for the huge greenwash/PR job that Prius got. Lots of bashing? Um quoting CR is not bashing . . . it's quoting. Nope ... CR's findings are not good news, but it IS the news. Drive a Volt for 70-ish miles and you waste money, compared to a NON-plugin Prius. It's sad ... it's a statement against GM ... but what ... I guess we were supposed to clasp hands over mouth and say nothing. BTW . . . when GM exec's said (recently) that the Prius was a car for nerds ... did you blow a hemorrhoid over that? Or is GM's unilateral bashing the only way bashing can be ok.
oh well . . . .

 

I say it is overpriced, you say it is overpriced. I am not feeling destroyed yet.

Wrong here. The Prius was compared often to the Honda Insight. The Insight was first in the USA. I say the Prius was better, but the Honda did achieve greater mpg.

Not feeling destroyed yet. Are you?

By either measure you are wrong. Both Toyota and GM got taxpayer money from their governments. Toyota benefited from US taxpayer dollars with the $3500 tax credit. GM got almost none of this money.

I am the one calling GM's claims outrageous and defending Toyota here. But Toyota was off.

It is on sale. Which is something many people here had said would NEVER HAPPEN.

Men in suits are frequently evil. Nothing new here.

 

Compare | Green Vehicle Guide | US EPA

here is a comparison between the Leaf...(oh DAMN!! forgot on Prius forum...) and well the Volt. notice the Volt is a small car. same category as a Smart car...hehehe