First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next week

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

With the current news from the middle east, and the threat of possible oil shortages caused by war and revolution, the focus of PHEV vehicles should come into sharper focus. Let us be less dependent on imported oil from unstable or hostile governments.

I am a little skeptical of your science and your math, but what is the point of continously bringing up a non shiping phv-prius when we want to talk about the volt.

I have no idea why your electric rates are so high. There is severe mismanagement or huge profit taking going on at your utility. The NYC MSA is projected to be the leading metro area for adoption of phev and bev vehicles though. There must be some people in the area that are either going to swallow it, or can get better rates.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I think HEVs should be the focus. We have a huge deficit and cordless hybrids are proven way to cut the consumption with the least amount of incentive.

Providing $3k incentive for Prius v or C-MAX hybrid would attract more SUV and mini-Van owners to switch. This will cut 6,000 gallons consumption for $3k per vehicle life.
$7,500 incentive for Volt would only save 2,500 gallons compared to the already efficient compact car.

We have zero incentive for the hybrids now and if we really want to cut oil consumption, that's where we should look at first.

My electricity is expensive because I consume so little. The cost of the actual electricity is about 1/4 and 3/4 are the fees and taxes. I am probably in the minority.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

It's not the math but the assumptions and scope of the study.

The paper from which the GHC graph is taken from compares a Prius like PHEV10/20 (with a PSD) to a purely series PHEV30/40 design. That's one important fact. This leads to skewing the assumption of certain AER fudge factors which reduce the AER's of the PHEV30/40 by 30% but keeps the AER's of the PHEV10/20 unchanged (mixed CS/CD with certain efficiency assumptions). Lastly, the paper assumes everyone buys a PHEV without considering their commute distance, in order to get an overall GHC comparison value (The average distance between charges is close to 40).
Hope that helps.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

at the gm-volt forums, it appears that someone with VN #1162 got his car delivered.

so that's at least 1,162 production volts shipped.

someone with vin 1761 claims his car is in the QC inspection stage. (you can track the progress of your build online).

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

+1

Thanks, I suspected as much but it wasn't my point.

This thread is about the Volt shipping, not volt against prius. It seems that some people can not help themselves but try to change the subject.

For me any of these phev and bev being sold is a good thing. Especially with the potential for oil shocks it is better for manufacturers to get experience with these electrified vehicles. One day we will need them. Right now initial adopters have shown enough interest that gm is speeding up production and roll out plans.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

By the 3rd month (February, almost a week to its end), keeping pace as it is, it will reach the first 1000 unit Volt delivered. VIN#1162 by now is very good! What would happen if GM was back to top manufacturer in the world?

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

The NY rates seem close to the top tiers we pay via So Cal Edison (SEE ATTACHED RATES) ... it's likely that's just the way it is.

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Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Rather than focus on GHG (wlhich is at best, a huge point of contention between deniers versus believers) . . . why not focus on the REAL pollution ... lthe KNOWN pollution ... the toxins that EVERYONE agrees are killing us ... the toxins that both cars or coal plants belch. Stated again & again, the fossil fuel required to burn to MAKE electricity, and the fossil fuel required to support a multi trillion dollar war machine (to assure we can continue to import over 1/2 of our toxic fossil fuel) never gets included.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

This harping over who is greener is a little silly IMO. Like USBSeaWolf I personally think a good hybrid is as cost effective as anything. Even so, electric vehicles have a role to play, and anything that gives people options and opens up their thinking past the 'SUV-is-best' mind set is a good thing. In large parts of the country, electricity is probably not greener than gasoline, but at least it's domestic. There are fairly ambitious plans to raise the CAFE for the first time in a long time, so that's a good thing, and will probably force manufacturers into more hybrids, regardless of the success of the Volt.

But I think you're both overlooking a big answer to our problems with pollution and sending our money overseas (petroleum is bigger than China regarding our trade imbalance). What I'd like to see is vehicles using natural gas. This is a proven technology, widely used in many parts of the world (including Iran, who saves their petroleum for export), cheaper than BEV or PHEV or REEV. It uses domestic gas supplies, produces much less pollution (people burn it in their unvented stoves in the home), and we're not funding both sides of the war on terror this way. Our politicians are really criminally negligent in not pushing this important piece of national security, instead letting our economy be under the sway of middle-eastern despots who are suddenly vulnerable to being overthrown.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

A lot of you people are talking the Volt out of context and comparing it on a stage it was not produced for. It is perfect for an around town car, it is not made to be a commuter. If you drive less than 30-40 miles per day then you will burn 0.0 gallons and have 0 tailpipe emissions.

In 10 years we will see what it takes to produce a Volt compared to a current model Prius because that is the age difference. Remember what goes into building a Prius is not all green fuzzy balls of planet love "Sudbury Inco Mine."

You are comparing a teenager to a toddler and arguing that a road bike sucks riding on dirt trails compared to a mountain bike.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Remember how Volt had been hyped as a "Prius killer" and a "game changer"? The response was concern about too little, too slowly... which sadly has been confirmed.
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Great example of downplay.
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Great example of backpedal.
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Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

The CMT study accounts for both. Read it.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

It is most definitly not a "Prius Killer", maybe a Prius challenger for an around town car but if you are going out of town on a trip I don't know who would make that statement. A "Game Changer" is possible still, it definitely gives people more of an option than only a Prius for something with ultra high MPG. But it is still $5-10k too much. The second generation Volt should be a lot closer to those names than the current one is.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

That's the problem. It isn't 40 miles and no gas. Winter delivers 25 miles and requires a small amount of gas routinely for warm-up.

Summer still remains an unknown. The 35-mile estimate should be pretty easy without A/C. But with it running while cruising at high speed, what will range be?

Unfortunately, science doesn't do a job of factoring in the impact of price. That's a classic engineering verses business problem. How many consumers will do the math and deem the choice too expensive?
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Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I don't think we can get enough nat-gas out of the ground fast enough to convert a significant portion of the fleet. So while some migration to it is worthwhile - I think it will be a significant mistake to shift all our eggs to that basket.

Don’t count on natural gas to solve US energy problems

IMO - we're better off building high-efficiency co-generation gas plants to burn the gas and generate electricity. At 60% efficiency that should provide a similar overall efficiency if you compared a nat-gas hybrid to a nat-gas powered EV.
Not only that but now you've added a very efficient power plant to the grid which will displace less efficient plants.

Start a real effort to capture gas from waste treatment plants and dumps and then we'll have a bit of true renewable fuel for those gas plants, too.

Sewage gas clean enough to use in your home - SignOnSanDiego.com

And economically - should we see spikes in gas prices like we did not too long ago - we still have a wide mix of other power plants to take up some slack.

But there is no silver bullet - it's going to take a wide array of technologies to wean us off the foreign oil.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I would love to see Prius NGV. It will qualify in the California HOV lane as well.

Toyota had a concept Camry hybrid that ran on natural gas.




Toyota Reveals More Details on Compressed Natural Gas Camry Hybrid for L.A. Show - WOT

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Are you assuming we produce zero oil? Our domestic oil production is nearly half of what we consume. From the oil that we import, 36% are from Canada and Mexico (friendly countries).

The notion that Prius drivers are funding both sides of the war on terror is wrong. We are the solution to end the foreign oil dependence. You don't need the initial 40 EV miles to achieve it. That was just Volt's FUD marketing - downplaying the electricity pollution and raising fear, uncertainty and doubt for oil imports and our cost to secure them.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Yes, and that's great, but I can't buy it in Illinois yet - it's only for sale in CA, NY, OK and UT. And it's one car, we should have a few more models available and it certainly hasn't been hyped like the electric car has been.

No, I don't remember it being called a Prius Killer. I remember the Insight II being called that. Definitely called a game changer, and while they made several compromises during development, it is still the first PHEV (although they call it a REEV) from a mainstream manufacturer on the marketplace. That counts for something, and we shouldn't disdainfully dismiss it, no matter how much you dislike GM.

In 4 years they'll have a redesign of it, and maybe that one will be the one that meets people's expectations and the sales really take off, much like the Gen I and Gen II Prius. Remember the first Gen I Prius was sold at a loss for a short while, GM decided not to do that, but as they figure things out and sales ramp up, they may very well be able to lower the price.

I'm not saying the Volt is the best thing since sliced bread, I'm just saying it's another part of our arsenal against petroleum imports and maybe eventually fossil fuel usage. Some people are just so anti-GM they can't admit even a tiny bit of good can come from any GM product.

As long as the total consumption is above our domestic production, we're driving up worldwide prices. If every commuter drove a Prius, we'd be almost at that break-even point of domestic production vs. demand. You'd still have to do something about the transportation of food and goods that we buy, but maybe we could count Canadian imports for that. Mexico's fields are in general decline, at some point they're going to decide to keep their remaining oil for themselves instead of importing it in a few years.

From the EIA:

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Nov-10
CANADA 1,975
MEXICO 1,229
SAUDI ARABIA 1,119
VENEZUELA 884
NIGERIA 806
COLOMBIA 489
ALGERIA 379
IRAQ 340
ANGOLA
ECUADOR 188
BRAZIL 188
KUWAIT 170
RUSSIA 85
UNITED KINGDOM 80
INDONESIA 55

Other than Canada, Mexico, the UK and possibly Brazil, name a country in the top 15 that we really consider friendly and stable. That means about 60% of our imports are directly paid to countries that probably don't support our best interests, and as I mentioned, any barrel purchased increases the global price of crude oil.