EPA & 15% Ethanol

Dealerships will resist more tanks/pumps. It is not approved for pre 2001 cars or any other ICE, so that cannot 'replace' 10% Ethanol, it needs new tanks and pumps.

Owners will resist a 5% (average*) drop in mileage. E85 has never been priced 30% below regular, it is doubtful E15 will be priced 5% below regular.

The EPA has allowed a waiver for E15 gas, but I doubt anyone but corn farmers/ethanol refiners is pushing for E15 gas. Permitted does not mean mandatory.

*The Prius seems to drop more than average, but that does not mean the average is higher than 5%.

 

Ethanol was a political thing back in the day...the gov pushed for it and ADM invested billions in ethanol production so they can't take it back. Now it's a global scam and ethanol margins will never be at risk because of gov subsidies and the manipulation of crude. The sad thing is that most of the public is uneducated about the effects of ethanol and that we don't have the crop size to meet out projected usage in 2011 (1 billion bushel shortfall). Ladies and gents get ready for $8-9 corn

 

Except Minnesota, where we used E10 back in the early 90's (winters at first, then all year long) and now there is an upcoming mandate for E20.

The catch is, it's a state effort. We have a lot of research taking place here. Refining & Transport is only a short distance too, all local and using waste for refining energy.

If we can't even get past the approval process, how are those local efforts ever going to develop into something practical for the rest of the country?
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I agree with you 100%. Ethanol is nothing but trouble, no matter how you look at. It does not save money or gas, does not cut down on pollution, or anything else they say it does. I am surprised there is not a major lawsuit over it because of all the engines ruined by it.

 

E10 has been the only fuel available here in Minnesota since the late 90's. Yet, there's no reports of engine trouble here.
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I know several people who have had to junk their lawn mowers, weed eaters, and even very expensive boat motors because of ethanol. We just recently have had ethanol-tainted fuel forced upon us here in hades. Before, all these motors were working fine.

My personal experience is with my '91 Toyota Truck. It cost me over $500 just to figure out that all the trouble I had was caused by ethanol. I have a tank of ethanol-free fuel in it now, and I am almost afraid to use the truck because I know that when this tank runs out, there is no ethanol-free fuel to be had. I have come to realize that my truck will most likely have to just sit there and rust away. I am trying to figure out a way to convert it to an electric truck, but it is very expensive. I hate to just park a perfectly good truck because a group of idiots won't allow me to buy the fuel it needs.

Whatever ever happened to the U.S. being a free country? Forcing ethanol-tainted fuel upon us is just one small way they are taking our freedom away a little at a time. :mad2:

 

Interesting that the government mandates higher CAFE numbers while approving fuel that lowers fuel efficiency by 5%.

 

So if biofuels aren't the answer, then what?

EV's wil never have more than a more than a niche market unless there is a major cultural shift in this country such that people become a lot more patient about getting from point A to point B... or possibly unless battery technology progresses to where there is about twice the energy density, so that there is a 200+ mile range available. But this will probably not hit the market for at least another 5 to 10 years (other than at a Tesla price).

 

There is a big corn lobby out there pushing ethanol, and that's what you see in Washington. Both Obama and that Republican Senator Graessley from Iowa are big pushers. This is one issue where Obama is swinging with the Republicans since he got a lot of ethanol money in the campaign--along with the Republicans.

 

At least in New York state, they'll just slap a "this pump contains up to 15% ethanol" sticker on all the pumps! Cost: about five bucks per station.

 

Crop size is a big concern in this country. What if the coming years' weather has lots of flooding or drought? The impact on food prices will skyrocket, and IIRC, we did see a little bit of that in the past year. If the demand for ethanol is increased, also the demand for the use of diesel, electricity to produce ethanol will also increase.
This is because the manufacture of fertilizers, running of combimes, trucks hauling raw products to the plants, the power comsumed at the plants to make ethanol, and the transportation of finished product to the distribution system. Not exactly a good way to reduce you carbon footprint.

The other problem consumers are not aware of - water absorption into the ethanol - a huge problem that is being kept quiet. Ethanol is a "MAGNET" for water, which ends up in your fuel system and causes a lot of problems. I been combating the effects of E10 using aftermarket fuel conditioners such as Seaform and Startron. I have not eliminated the entire water problem, at best I have minimized the water issues in the fuel systems.

I do not want to see E15 or worse E20 on the market. This will me less mpgs, more water absorption issues, and higher food prices at the supermarkets.

DcCassidy

 

Problem?

Quite the opposite.

With the sealed tank in Prius, the only way water gets in is via the gas. Ethanol absorbs that and carries it out through the combustion process.
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They can be part of the answer, but the current implementation of corn ethanol is NOT a solution. As many have pointed out, profit takes precedence over it's effectiveness Sustainable bio-fuels needs to be done without impacting the food crops like the corn ethanol industry.

A more sensible use of biofuels is supplying power plants.

 

Agreed.

There's a process called thermal depolymerization that is supposed to net a pure form of crude oil, in theory from almost any bio-waste. The process had been perfected past the break-even point by Changing Word Technologies such that the process was claimed to be carbon-nuetral.

Here's some background as per Wiki:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization]Thermal depolymerization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

It's not clear why the project apparently stalled out.

 

1. EPA fuel economy testing is carried out with E0 (actually a special standardized test fuel with no ethanol).

2. Ethanol is mandated to be blended into fuels by a section of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2008. That section, referred to as RFS2, increases the ethanol blending every year, that's why they certified E15. It won't all fit into E10.

 

I noticed that probably all the motors you mentioned in the first paragraph were 2-stroke. Do you need to increase the quantity of oil in the gas in some of those motors? It seems to me that ethanol would wash the cylinders of the lubricating oil very effectively. Perhaps that was the problem with them.

 

Let Ethanol Subsidies Expire For Good - Forbes.com

But somehow this corporate welfare continues to big corn and big oil.

Ethanol Subsidy Support Running On Empty - Forbes.com

 

The subsidy had an effect when there was no mandate. Now, it's subsidizing blending that's mandated anyway as part of RFS2. A subsidy on something that's mandated is basically a giveaway. Without the subsidy, add about 4.5 c/gal to the gas price and still get E10 and E15 at the pumps.

They need to repeal RFS2, or at least roll back the volume requirements. ADM will never let that happen though.

 

This is the problem, some of the ethanol blended with the gas has water in it. With higher levels of ethanol this will likely increase. The problem never was water getting in the gas tank, if that was the case ethanol would indeed help.

Good solutions would be to reduce the amount of ethanol mandated, remove the subsidy to blenders, and remove the tarrif to imported ethanol,so that ethanol made from things other than corn could be blended.

That would help ethanol be more environmentally friendly, better for our cars, and remove corporate welfare.

The epa is mandating more corporate welfare, more environmental damage, and lower miles per gallon in our cars. If you hate the environment and love taxes this increased mandate is perfect.