How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

well said. but i don't have any expectations. just waiting to see the outcome. not making any pre judgements even though gm has failed on all fronts to date. i do like the looks of the chevy cruise, not that i'm going to buy one. but if they are popular, it might help them pay back uncle sam.

 

Currently and for the first ten years of Prius production there was only one version as well.

I think that is a great idea. I would like to see a model with a half battery and a 1.0 turbo like the original concept. Like you, I do not think it will happen.

I think Tesla will be the first company to get different battery sizes and prices in the same car out to the public. Tesla will continue for years to be the only pure BEV maker to have 150+ mile ranges on 4 wheeled vehicles, though at high prices. Toyota partnering with Tesla may help them 'leap' past the Leaf.

 

There have been 3 variations of the power-split hybrid system available here for years, each offering unique engine & motor sizes. A concept model for the 4th was revealed last month too.

That most definitely counts as a choice.
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You should see the Hyundai and Ford PHEVs with about half the size of the battery of the volt. Details are not really available. But the idea is battery price will be coming down, so after the tax credit, I doubt reducing the volt's battery size will reduce its price to the consumer. Reduced battery cost and competition should be in effect in 2013.

The 1L turbo seems to be completely lost, since the drive train seems to need assistance from at least the generator motor at higher speeds. This locks it into a parrellel/serial hybrid geometry and a higher output motor. What will happen is there will be engine changes in the next 2 years to allow for flex fuel. If they add di abd tuned for efficiency it should be able to boost fuel economy. I would like to see that generator serial hybrid, but that isn't going to happen in the volt. Even with a 1.4 L engine like the mazda skyactive, and better software there is not a reason a volt like vehicle could not get 50mpg city. The problem is simply execution.

+1

Great thoughts. Unfortunately this is an internet forum, and some do not have your open mindedness.

 

If many of the "potential" customers, like Prius owners (since are a bit more pro-green and have some knowledge of energy/waste/behaviour, driving a hybrid for 10 years), don't give true opinions and expectations, and point the flaws, GM will no get ideas to improve, also...
Unfortunately, as said before in an amazing and overhelming article, GM CEO wouldn't get caught in one Prius, which is a geek-mobile.

 

OK, so that's 6 months you can cycle and the rest of the time the EV performance is compromised by bad weather.

While there are positive benefits in terms of lower emissions at the tailpipe, my concern is about total energy consumption. A hybrid uses more energy in manufacturing. If you are not driving many miles a hybrid is wasteful, because the efficiency of operation won't make up for the extra energy of manufacture. It'll be especially bad if you have low mileage with a combination of short commutes and longer trips, since on longer trips efficient ICEV performance is closer to hybrid performance.

So that's 45 EV miles per week. A whopping 2350 miles per year, up to a 1/3 of which (more in milder climates) could be done using other, more efficient means of transportation.

It's counterproductive because short range EV displaces more energy-efficient means of transportation such as walking, cycling and public transportation. I also think it has an additional potential negative side-effect: encouraging people to maximize EV mileage by charging during peak demand.

 

Are you counting the different generations as a choice?

 

That defeats the purpose of technology to reduce gasoline consumption. Advancement in technology is supposed to eliminate the need to compromise. You can always downsize or go human power but that requires compromise.

HSD and PHV HSD get around the whole idea of giving up something to get another.

 

^^ I've never viewed technology that way. I think of it allowing humans to do more with what they have, and hopefully not just through pollution or resources abuse.

 

I have used my bicycle and made a 12 miles round trip. It took nearly 1.5 hours. That includes the time to stop by for a drink and rest. It can be done but it is not practical for city life style. I also inhaled a lot more car exhaust in that trip.

I agree with you that people should use common sense to walk or cycle when it makes sense. A plugin car should be used only if you really need to. For example, should you walk or cycle for 2 miles long grocery shopping trip? It depends on the weather, the load of your grocery and the free time you have.

Anyway, for every short MPG killer trips, the PHV Prius will displace a lot of gasoline with more efficient electricity. PHV Prius won't use electricity wildly -- accelerate uphill at high speed. It will select the most suitable powertrain(s) intelligently.

 

The next question to ask is why sell the website after working so hard for this very moment? This is the time to kick back and let the owners provide their real-world experiences, share detail of their findings. No more hype.

Unfortunately, we've seen this type of silence before. The same thing happened shortly after rollout of Two-Mode. It makes the situation very easily to speculate about disenchantment...
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That says it all and it colors all of your discussion. It has gotten so bad that you pour out bogus FUD arguments against the Volt that give people the idea that other electric cars are bad too.

 

It's fortunate that Prius remains true to being a hybrid... taking advantage of the best of both worlds. It makes the PHV the next logical step, an easy progress for consumers to understand.
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Don't worry, only Volt is bad. :rockon:

 

It is very strange. The last post prior to selling the site said Volt's CS mode is optimized as much as possible and further improvement is not possible.

That's probably the straw that broke the camel's back. First, it costs more to operate Volt in both electricity and gasoline. Second, Volt produces more emission. Third, he couldn't drive it in deep snow due to 3" ground clearance. There are just too many compromises.

I wonder if he cancelled or sold his Volt.

 

Volt is turning out to be a game-player, not a game-changer.

Price is the killer. Adding $5,000 of plug-in components to a $25,000 package keeps the PHV Prius within the target for mainstream consumers. The base price of $41,000 for Volt indicates the need for upcoming compromise... which certain well-informed individuals would have already figured out... hence disenchantment.
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That was a slog.
Was it ever pinned down if preconditioning and remote start are the same thing? The engine possibly coming on during a remote start is a non-issue. My HHR's engine always comes on for a remote start. Like the direct drive from the engine during highway CS cruising, it would have been nice not to happen, but if it's the best way to do it, then ok.

Really. You really need to remote start a car, and warm up the cabin, for one that has been parked in the garage all night. I think you really just need a better coat, or listen to your mother and dress in layers.

Actually, they may not have.
Nearly all new models and redesigns have a jump in problems over the previous generation model or the manufacturer's average reliability. No one is immune to it. CR used the 2nd gen RAV4 as an example of have badly issues can jump.
Design and planning has a part to play, but it mostly comes down to the manufacturing employees having to learn the building process for the new vehicle. Being good takes practice. My gen 2 Prius had the filpped access panel on the HSD body. Had no effect on the HSD or to me, but it did stick a point of metal out which did cut into a wiring harness for some people.

Nothing is ever perfect. Mistakes will be made. The judgment is in how it is handled after the fact.

 

Nope, the question went unanswered and the owner of the Volt forum decided not to use the preconditioning feature. He never gave a reason why and then he sold his site.

It is normal for you HHR to start the engine since it is a gas only car. Do you really expect a car that was hyped as an electric car to start the gas engine even when it was plugged in?

It appears GM is scrambling to be competitive with Prius PHV. However Prius PHV already has the advantage with the ICE that is lower in emission (eAT-PZEV) and higher efficiency (50 MPG). Prius PHV is also capable of intelligently blending two power sources (gas and plug electric) automatically and reliability has been proven without clutches or belts.

 

The Prius PHV doesn't exist in the marketplace. (I'm quite sure you are very familiar with the term vaporware, that's what the Prius PHV is now).

All signs point to Toyota bungling the Prius Plugin due to the delays caused by battery issues, leading to design point obsolescence (Yes, the Prius is getting outdated) and new competition. For example, the small battery's no longer cutting it in the age of 50-100 mile EV range.

 

Keeping the price affordable isn't a sign?

When does this age begin? I see an awful lot of advertisements promoting the greatness of 30 MPG. A plug-in Prius delivering over 75 MPG without compromise certainly doesn't sound obsolete.
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