brake pad fell apart on 2002 at 43,561 miles

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Londonderry, Feb 5, 2011.

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  1. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    I applied brakes while car was moving slowly, less than 10 mph, and heard loud grinding sound coming from left front as car stopped. Shifted to reverse and car barely moved, less than 1 foot, which was accompanied by the loud grinding sound, then stopped. I could find nothing interfering with the wheels but did find pieces of brake pad on the ground along the path the left front wheel had followed. The left front wheel appeared as if the calipers were holding whatever remained of the brake pad and/or backing tight against the rotor.

    Brake function had been normal for prior 7 11/12 years, ie, since I purchased it as a new 2002 Toyota Prius. There was a bothersome grinding, sometimes rattling or squealing noise from the left front wheel since the first year of ownership and I was repeatedly told by the dealer that nothing was wrong. Brake rust had gradually accumulated on the left front aluminum wheel but not on any others and the dealer blamed that on winter salt.

    It was towed to a different dealer and the Service Manager assured me that it would be thoroughly investigated. The front brake pads were replaced along with the front rotors being resurfaced. Despite my request, no parts were kept, no information was provided and the service manager was now indifferent to my concern about cause.

    After driving my "repaired" Prius home, I learned that there was a recommendation that the left front rotor be replaced. My private mechanic did that. The original rotor had a deep groove in it which had already created a groove in the new brake pad, from driving 200 miles. The caliper on that side had dried brake fluid on it. My mechanic said he would have replaced that caliper if doing the initial work because that seemed the most likely component at fault. There has never been any discernable lowering of the brake fluid level in the past 8 years and I have no way of knowing what the caliper looked like when the car was at the dealer.

    I plan on getting my mechanic to replace the caliper and perform any additional work indicated. I had had the car taken to the dealer originallly because I thought there was a manufacturing defect and I hoped the service manager would have some integrity. I would greatly appreciate opinions about this event and what steps to take next. I also wanted to inform others of what happened since I think it was a serious event even if nobody was injured as a result.
     
    #1 Londonderry, Feb 5, 2011
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Breaking up your posts into paragraphs and sections would really help w/readability. You put on only 43,561 miles on a car over an almost 8 year period?

    Are you this guy? Complaints Summary
     
    #2 cwerdna, Feb 5, 2011
  3. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    #3 Londonderry, Feb 6, 2011
  4. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Click the Edit button then add in carriage returns in your post.

    I only ask because there have been a rash of single post individuals "complaining" of a plethora of "problems", usually to never return. Many of these also are very hard to read posts, also w/only a single paragraph. Such low mileage in on 02 Prius is also odd.

    Just doing a Google search turned up much the same text/verbage at TOYOTA Problems, 2002 TOYOTA PRIUS Problems & Complaints - Page #1, which prompted me to search for a NHTSA safety complaint. It just seems odd that your first post is similar in wording and also is as hard to read as the single paragraph (as displayed) NHTSA safety complaint.
     
    #4 cwerdna, Feb 6, 2011
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Who recommended that the LF rotor should be replaced? If the dealer tech did, why was this not done during the dealer service?

    2. I agree that if the LF caliper is leaking, that it should be replaced.

    3. If the LF rotor is replaced then the RF rotor also should be replaced.

    4. It appears that the LF brakes had multiple problems:

    - the LF brake pad friction material delaminated from the metal backing, so the pads fell apart. This is an uncommon occurrence.

    - this resulted in damage to the LF rotor

    - a leaky LF caliper, probably unrelated to the brake pad failure. This also is uncommon.
     
    #5 Patrick Wong, Feb 6, 2011
  6. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    Thank you for your help. I thought it was uncommon too, did a search, and have been glad to find PriusChat. This site is uncommon in a very positive way. I've started getting quite interested in my car as a result, even tho it has started to self-destruct. 6 months before the brake pad disintegrated, the rear window spontaneously exploded!
     
    #6 Londonderry, Feb 7, 2011
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    It sounds like you plan to order the parts and deliver to your mechanic for him to install. I suggest that you review the proposed list of parts with your mechanic to make sure that he is satisfied, since he is the one doing the work.

    I am not aware of the concept of a "loaded caliper". I am aware of the concept of buying a caliper, or buying separate piece parts: a caliper piston and caliper repair kit. The latter includes replacement caliper piston seals.

    You might consult with your mechanic to see whether he feels it is worthwhile to rebuild the existing caliper as the parts price differential is significant. See this Toyota dealer's parts website for example where the piston costs $21, the kit costs $25 while the caliper assembly costs $305:
    Champion ToyotaWorld

    Regarding the rear window destruction, it looks like your car is a magnet for uncommon occurrences. Was this due to a change in weather? How do you know a rock didn't hit the glass?
     
    #7 Patrick Wong, Feb 7, 2011
  8. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    #8 Londonderry, Feb 8, 2011
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I suggest that your mechanic obtain Toyota repair manual info for your car, at techinfo.toyota.com

    The brake parts at the wheels are conventional in design.

    The main issue with the braking system is that the mechanic should be very careful not to allow the brake fluid reservoir to go dry so that air can enter the brake hydraulic system from that point. It is not easy to bleed the brake actuator system (which provides brake power assist), without access to the Toyota diagnostic laptop.

    OK on the status of the other front rotor, sounds good.
     
    #9 Patrick Wong, Feb 8, 2011
  10. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    That will be helpful for backup prn. I'm getting a hard copy of the 2 repair manuals as a basic reference for mechanics since I'm moving at some point to an area in TN where it's hard core Nisson territory and Toyota shops are scarce. I have wondered how to keep tabs on revisions of repair procedures. Scanning this site, Yahoo site and NHTSA for TSB's has shown me the range of topics. Is techinfo.toyota.com continually updated to incorporate new info. from TSB's in the appropriate info areas or is a separate search needed?

    Thank you for the reassurance. It looked that way to my mechanic.

    We've wondered about that "exclusively Toyota" aspect but haven't had time to see what his computer/scanner/data system would provide for my car. I don't know the name/company but it costs him $1800.00/yr for the continually updating subscription portion and hasn't let him down so far.

    Thank you once more. Having read many of your posts on other threads, I have associated your name with credibility, information worth reading and other positive attributes.
     
    #10 Londonderry, Feb 9, 2011
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    techinfo is Toyota's official website for technical information. You can access TSBs there. Once the repair manual for a given model year is published, I am not aware of periodic revisions being made to the manual. Hence you would have to consult the repair manual to obtain the basic info on repairing a given item; then review the TSBs to see if supplemental information is provided that would be relevant to the job at hand.

    Also, techinfo has the New Car Features Manual available. This provides theory of operations that the repair manual does not contain. The repair manual assumes that you know how the car operates. If this is of interest then you would look primarily at the NCF for the first model year of the Prius generation in question. In your case that would be 2001. 2002 and 2003 versions would just show you the differences from 2001 which are minor.
     
    #11 Patrick Wong, Feb 9, 2011
  12. Agape

    Agape Member

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    #12 Agape, Feb 9, 2011
  13. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    Thank you very much for the site overview and guidance.
     
    #13 Londonderry, Feb 10, 2011
  14. Agape

    Agape Member

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    Any luck getting evidence to back up your statement?
     
    #14 Agape, Mar 1, 2011
  15. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    #15 tnt01prius, Oct 19, 2011
  16. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    I don't know how you folks in the MidWest can take it. I'm rebuilding my Sequoia using the shell from another one from Minnesota that had an engine fire. I've have to PB Blast, torch, or Sawzall about half the exposed nuts and bolts on this thing! The frame is heavily rusted already. I can totally believe brake pads falling apart.
     
    #16 seilerts, Oct 20, 2011
  17. tnt01prius

    tnt01prius Member

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    Right. I'm in southern IL, so not so bad here on snow and ice, but when we get it the DOT has plenty of ice melt stored up and boy do they use it. Though car bodies hold up now, some parts not so much.

    My 01 Prius had occasional hybrid system warnings in high heat (TX) and even in s. IL heat. It makes me wonder how many HV bats will deteriorate prior to warranty expiration in high heat locations. What extra precautions do you take to protect your HV battery in NM heat?
     
    #17 tnt01prius, Oct 20, 2011
  18. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Avoid parking in direct sunlight at high SoC is about the best you can do -- at least, those are conditions that I have noticed that trigger the fan to come on high with driveability issues upon a restart.
     
    #18 seilerts, Oct 20, 2011
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  19. Londonderry

    Londonderry Junior Member

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    I'm glad to hear others have this concern. Since I've been learning about my car by reading PriusChat and links in the threads, I've realized that my habit of trying to park in shade and leaving all 4 windows open about 1/2" does more than make it more comfortable for me to get back in the car on hot days.

    However, the last segment of the air cooling vent from the hybrid battery dumps hot air over the auxillary battery and into the trunk area moreso than venting to the outside, based on size of openings. Seems counterproductive and possibly detrimental to both batteries. Also, the tray behind the back seats is nearly black, adding to heat accumulation above the hybrid battery pack, plus heating the area of air intake. Has anyone modified these parts?
     
    #19 Londonderry, Oct 21, 2011
  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    The pack vents into the cabin. Batteries are like humans. When you are comfortable, so is the battery. So by venting to the cabin and assuming a human lifeforce is driving and controlling cabin temperature, it will try to maintain a healthy temperature.
     
    #20 2k1Toaster, Oct 21, 2011
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