Comparison Test: 2011 Chevrolet Volt vs. 2010 Toyota Prius PHV

Are they like "the trolls" on other sites?

Those labels have mutated into meaning someone who says something contrary to the status quo.

It's really sad how difficult it has become to be constructive now. If you're not shaking pom-poms cheerleading, you're labeled as someone attempting to undermine. That's pretty bad.

This isn't a success/failure situation. In reality, it's a grading system. Prius earned an "A" from delivering on all the goals consumers challenged it to. Volt looks more and more like a "D" for coming up so short on price, emissions, and engine efficiency.
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This issue is focusing on the person rather than the topic of the discussion. It is an easy way out especially if the facts do not favor one's position.

 

Leaf won't have ground clearance problem like the Volt. Leaf has 6.3" instead of Volt's 3" clearance.

This means Leaf can make trips in the snow. Some NJ Volt owner missed daily trips after the snow. So much for the claims of Volt being capable of a single household car. Quite an irony.

 

That and the size/shape of the battery both contribute. The T shape is not helping them here and neither is the larger size of the battery due to the liquid cooling system.

I am assuming that the Prius Phev has nearly identical ground clearance to a regular Prius due to the location and packaging of the battery.

 

Wow john, first I did not call you out as a hater, but if the name fits.....
If you don't understand a term, it might be helpfull to ask what it means instead of just being insulted.

From urban dictionary.

Actually the point about rear sear leg room was brought up in a sucess failure discussion. Then USB interjected in a thread about a new volt, that the owner should take a picture of the rear leg room. To me this statement is the definition of hater speak. I'm not sure where this or the leaf is just like a versa and shouldn't cost more can be construed as constructive. There have been hundreds of these little missives making it hard for those of us wanting to talk about the volt or leaf without the barbs of the haters. Most of the points are exactly the same as prius haters make against the prius. Now explain again how you are insulted.

I definitely think the facts do favor the opinion that size of the prius, leaf, and volt is not the crucial point in how much they are worth. I hope you don't think me pointing out that these kind of little barbs mean that I think the facts don't support me. I am pointing it out so you don't present 100s of more posts about idiotic or incorrect things. I hope that is clear enough. I do not mean to be insulting, but your posts speak for themselves.

 

Assuming that's what I thought is an interesting twist. The point was to point out how labels change and how common it is to use them to distract discussions.

That's why some of us adhere to quantifiable goals, such as vehicle-price, emission-rating, and engine-efficiency.
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It mattered for the Insight II when compared with the Prius. It will be one of the factors. For some it will be a deal breaker, for some it may not. BTW, Prius is outselling Insight II by 7:1 ratio not because it is more expensive but because it provides a lot more bang to the buck.

I think PHV Prius will provide the most bang for the buck (when compared to Volt and Leaf) as well. Volt is the smallest yet heaviest and the most expensive of the three. Volt has the biggest and widest tire to carry and stop that mass. Big rims tend to make the car look better so Volt will have the edge on the appearance department.

I have never seen a Volt in person so I requested (in another thread) a picture of the rear leg room with a reference point to compare it with Prius. Did an arrow strike a bullseye at your heart? You reacted as if it did.

Anyway, keep the constructive discussion coming. It is more interesting with different perspectives.

 

No, its not a changed label for troll, its a different thing.
The question is does one shout down the important information with dribble. There is important information like acceleration, ev range, price etc that you can get from numbers. There is subjective information that you can get from a test drive or maybe from a review, like fit and finish, handling, comfort. Then there is dribble I see this number is smaller and bigger is better. On size people are split and anyone test driving the thing can find out quickly what size and ergonomics they prefer. Then there is the made up stuff, like the engine will automatically come on in the garage and poison you with CO, which is just made up. The person writing it may not even know its made up, but if they hate the car, they might just pass it along without thinking or checking it out.

On the post you seemed to find problems with, I was saying to evnow, not to throw out the raw numbers because those that don't understand them will just distort to show how the leaf is a bad car. It is probably just better for me to find out about technology from a different site, and not be annoyed by the pointless distortions some need to use to make a point.

 

Some of us might consider what motor trend editors said and people are buying the better hybrid, but that might just be silly old me. Those auto magazines just lie don't they. According to said editor, honda may have gone too cheap, the engine is louder and buzzier needing high revs most of the time. THe mileage is worse, the worse, the engine doesn't stay off at stop lights with the ac on. Then again you might be right and size is the main reason. Toyota might be making an awful mistake putting out the prius c and ct200. Bob lutz said that hybrids will only sell on big expensive cars when explaining why the prius would be a failure. I would make the bet that you and lutz are wrong and toyota and the volt are right, but hey, time will tell.

Hey, I think you are posting a huge amount and stopping honest discussions of the cars. The backseat in the volt is smaller. You obviously from your posts hate the volt and wish it failure. You have no intention of ever buying one. You act like you are an expert,
but haven't been in the car at all. Sure if you need to seat 3 adults in the back don't buy the volt. Great reason. I rode on an elementary school, school bus sunday back to the start of a half maration, and one of my friends on the bus was 6'3". We commented on the assigned seating, etc. You could not sit straight, you needed your legs to diagnal. But you know what we all fit, and you couldn't even see the bottom of our legs let alone our feet. Oh and not even close to the room of the volt in the back seat. Some people will want bigger, some people don't care.

 

No place for constructive discussion? How will Volt ever evolve to something better if you aren't allowed to point out what needs to be improved?

Heck, the commute this morning provided a great example of why not having a rear-wiper is an obvious shortcoming. The angle of the glass isn't vertical enough to allow snow melted from the rear-defroster wires to slide down. It just sits there. Adding a wiper would be a real improvement.

What about asking for a photo that clearly shows how the lack of a rear bumper on Volt prevents it from supporting a strap-on bike-rack? Do you really think that's an effort to make Volt fail entirely?

There's no opportunity to poke for updates? Isn't that how competing vehicles improved in the past? A kick in the butt for their own good isn't?
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It is a valid concern and the Volt owners discussed about it. Yes, the precondition starts the gas engine even when the car was turned off and plugged into the wall.

Where is your source of information that it is made up?

 

I said the key words "best bang for the buck" and the size as one of the factors. If it is smaller, it better be more efficient and cheaper to buy and operate. I am sure Prius C will do that. The same for CT200h when compared to other Lexus hybrids.

I am sharing what I know and requesting the info that I don't know about the Volt. How is it stopping an honest discussion? If anything, you are the one off-topic discussing about me instead of the Volt or PHV Prius.

A $41k compact Chevy is questionable because of it's emission rating, engine efficiency and plug efficiency. Volt consumes the most electricity per mile than any other plugins (Leaf, Mini E, Tesla Roadster, PHV Prius, etc...).

 

Three real assessment sentences...

I would like to meet USB one day, but for reading its posts, it comes to me...that I agree with 90% of what we writes, since it is always written with other sources, linkable...

First, hating the volt is consistent with the ability of GM for twisting real facts, right from the beginning. Wishing its failure is also consistent with watching a crippled man lose against Usain Bolt. Both unavoidable.

Second, there are many people that would never buy one, and from my POV, I will personally try harder that less and less people buy one! I am one of the 7 billions of humans sharing energy and resources, I will always race against waste.

Third, USB has proven be a well informed guy, and keeps us informed also. Expert, why not? Are you in a position to judge? And are we?

 

Unfortunately, GM's reputation for "over promise, under deliver" is well earned. The contrast to Ford is quite amazing; you'd think they were from entirely different cultures. One hypes to death. The other simply gets the job done.

GM set out to build a green car, but totally neglected the emission-rating. They repeatedly stated the importance of price, yet built a car well outside that budget. They heavily promoted efficiency after depletion, then abandoned that goal.

This is why some of us have been pushing to get GM back on track by asking questions of purpose. You know there's trouble when basic questions like "Who is the market for Volt?" are evaded. Heavy emphasis is placed upon the drive experience while disregarding priorities of the mainstream.

If you follow business decisions closely, the picture revealed is troubling. Ask yourself about the potential for Volt to become a profitable high-volume vehicle. What will it replace and how long will that take?
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Some of the "Pro-Volt" posters are bailing GM out even after seeing how the actual Volt turns out (vs. promised Volt). Every goals promised were not met and we found out one after another. Yet, they continue to support GM by giving excuses, calling the critics "trolls" or accuse of spreading FUD.

Having said that I am sure Volt would be a better choice for some. It is just that many will find PHV Prius a better choice. :rockon:

 

I corrected this in the other thread, but thought for thoroughness I would do it here. I read your link and it even has the answer. It is under section 2-8.

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/owners/manuals. /2011/2011_chevrolet_volt_owners.pdf

The volt has a remote start, which is referred to in the manual. Plugging the car in does not guarantee that the engine will not start when it is remotely started. If you go by the volt's tag line "more car than ev", this makes perfect sense. Plugging in the car WILL not cause the engine to run. Remote starting the car when it is very cold may start the car. The blog suggests this can happen as warm as 26 degrees, but there is no clarification from gm.

Should this be a concern? The volt produces about 1.3gms of CO per mile, I have no idea how much it produces when parked. In 2000 the average car produced 20 grams. The engine will not run for a long period of time, so not much chance of death, but.... I would not even run the much lower emission prius in a closed garage. People need to open their garage when remote starting the volt. They don't when they remote start the teslas or leaf, but hey they are pure electric cars. Under very cold conditions the range is serverly limited on ev's and the volt uses gas in an efficient range. I think this is a benefit of a phev, but it should have an off switch so that it can be driven like a pure ev when users want to. There may be a dealer configuration to change this, just as us prius owners have been able to turn off that irritating reverse beep.

So is the feature of including a remote start with a volt dangerous? That is up to you to decide, but I don't think so. I also think that it was lack of information that made you think this feature was dangerous.

 

Asking that seems quite a divergence from the original point of being as clean as possible and not using any gas in the first place.
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Volt can run the gas engine for 10 minutes. This source said 10 mins is enough.

Lethal levels of the gas can occur in as little as 10 minutes in a closed garage.​

As a reminder, Leaf (a real EV) doesn't do this. So Volt's gas engine not only extend the range, it also warm the battery and also drives the car. That surely is not an electric car.

 

How many times would an owner have to do that before the contents of the garage begin to smell like exhaust, from a system with only a ULEV emission-rating?
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looking at the title of this thread, are we comparing the volt to the leaf or prius phev?