Its the tranny part 2: $4211

Damn, that sure is a bummer. If you wouldn't mind sharing, are you the original owner, have you ever had an accident or incident that could have transferred sidewall impact from the wheels to the trans, and have you ever changed the transmission fluid?

Yes, do 2+3. A good shop will give you an honest diagnosis and have no problem locating a high quality salvage trans in your area. Obviously, the lower the mileage the better. A Toyota specialty shop will do just fine, since they will just drop the engine + trans, separate the old one, bolt on the new one, and put it back in. A transmission specialty shop may not be so keen, since they will not make any money on the rebuild, and will not deal with the Prius on any level very often. Look to spend upwards of $2,000.

I happen to appreciate freidawg's presence on PC. He has a lot of valuable information to share. For example, paying close attention to the condition of high voltage connectors when installing a salvage trans.

 

Here are my comments on your alternative courses of action:

1. That is a reasonable choice given the relatively low market value of your car compared to the repair price.

2. My guess is that you'll pay ~$1K for a used transaxle and another $1K to have it installed. I suggest you make a list of independent Toyota specialists in your area and call around to see who might be interested in that job.

3. I don't know what spider gears are. Perhaps this is referring to the differential gears? Besides the powertrain noise, are there any other driveability symptoms? Were any DTC logged by the car? What would happen if you continued to drive the car as-is while saving your money to pursue #1 once the Prius dies?

I'm interested in knowing how long you've owned the car, and whether anything happened to provoke this problem. Have you ever had the transaxle fluid replaced, or at least had the fluid level checked? The 2G transaxle is generally quite reliable with very few reported problems.

 

Spider gears are part of a Prius differential. They are the two bevel gears in the differential assemble on an axis perpendicular to the axleshaft bevel gears. It looks like a typical front wheel drive car differential.

 

That seems pretty harsh. I can't say I've ever noticed any troll like behavior from that guy and he's completely up front able being a parts recycler. What, so he told the other poster that he could get a good condition low mileage tranny delivered (from Denver) to his door (in Ca) for under $1000. Doesn't sound all that bad to me. Then one particular user jumps all over him because apparently in Ca the availability is so good you can get one for even less locally. Big deal, he made an offer to help the user and the user is free to shop around and decide for himself. I don't even think the price he was asking was all that bad anyway. Seriously get over it.

 

I think that you should change the transaxle fluid now, and just drive the car until you notice more severe driveability symptoms. So what if the transaxle is making noise? High 40's mpg is still quite respectable.

You might be able to drive another 20-30K miles before something else happens, and by then you may be ready for a new vehicle.

 

""Transmission fluid was never changed. Leasing company's maintenance pretty much followed Toyota's service schedule.""

that's your problem, trans fluid should be changed at 30K intervals, the factory wants you to trade up at 100K miles so the maintainance schedule means the car is under maintained if you want long life

Take it to an independent Toyota specialist. In the Southern Cal area a salvage trans should be under $1000 and the labor about $700. If you find a really good dealer they will install the trans you provide for about the same labor. Keep in mind that whoever does the job they will mark up the trans if they supply it, you may save money by finding the trans yourself. The salvage yard should guarantee the part but you won't get a guarantee on the labor unless you let the shop supply the part.

All used trans should have a VIN tag that goes with the car the trans is from. You can take this number and run a CarFax and get the approximate mileage that is on the trans. You want something with 50K or less miles, otherwise you are just looking at the same problem again at 100K.

technically speaking I doubt it's the spider gears because they would only make noise on turns, not driving straight, but it's probably something in the trans, that's hard to confuse with something else.

Your final post on this thread should be "it was the trans, came in under $2000"

All this said you could change the fluid and drive it till it gets worse. I've driven trans's with noise for 50K, it depends what is wrong.

 

My vote goes to change the fluid and drive it till the trans craps out, or the noise becomes too annoying.
The only risk is the trans giving up the ghost at an inopportune time or place. The noise will probably become worse before then. Drive it!

 

I recently faced the same dilemma but on a 1998 Toyota 4 Runner. I opted for a used transmission with 30,000 miles on it since it saved me about $1500. It still ended up costing me $3500 all said and done. The used transmission works great except for 2nd gear which is difficult to shift into when it's cold. In some ways I regret not spending the extra $1500 to buy a new transmission since I don't like to drive it when it's cold since it's difficult to get it into 2nd until it warms up. The one problem with the used transmission is that you don't really know what your getting. If the transmission is bad and has to be replaced your still stuck paying all the labor to have the transmission replaced. Used transmission typically only have 30-90 day part guarantee. In my case I didn't want to spend the extra money to replace it since mine works great except for the first few miles when it's really cold.

Because the transmission isn't perfect for me I ended up buying a Prius to use as my main transportation instead of the 4Runner.
I still have the 4Runner for those things that I still needed it.
But if my transmission had been perfect after the repair I probably would of delayed my Prius purchase for a few more years.

Your deciding factor should really be how long do you want to keep the car. If you want to continue driving the same car for a few more years or till it dies then opting for a new transmission may not be a bad investment. If you planned on buying a new car in a year or two then I'd say don't fix it and trade it now or fix it with a low cost used transmission and if it doesn't fix it adequately trade it in. You also may want to look for a rebuilt transmission. It may be a bit more expensive then a used one but it has a better warranty.

 

+1 on changing the AT fluid. You may just get lucky and have it quiet down enough to not matter anymore.
If you're willing to tackle it yourself it may also be interesting to get an analysis done on the fluid. See the two sticky threads at the top of the "Gen II Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting" section.

- D

 

As for Toyota suggesting you to under-maintain the car, I and my family have owned Toyotas for 25 years, and had many of them upwards of 200,000 miles following only the manufacturer's reccomended maintenance. I think thats a pretty bold claim.

If that were true, why don't we hear about Toyota transmission failures all over the place at 100,000 miles? We don't...in fact its VERY rare. So I call BS on that.

My suggestion would be to keep working on Toyota, I bet if you stay firm and friendly, you can get them to at least kick in part of this cost. Very unusual failure.

 

I agree, changing the fluid is a good idea. This will also reveal if there really is a fault in the transaxle, as there will be lots of metal on the magnet. (take pictures for us!)

Maybe you'll get lucky and there will be no excessive metal on the magnet, because maybe the problem is a noisy brake or wheel bearing. (being optimistic!)

Then (if) the thing gets worse, take it to an independent shop with Prius experience. Should be possible to find one in SoCal. There are many great shops up here in the Bay Area.

Or, sell it to me for a reasonable cost and I'll fix it! =)

 

I suggest that you consider draining and replacing the 4Runner transmission oil. Use the same weight oil as specified by the owners manual, but move to Red Line synthetic gear oil.
http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7

I owned a 1988 BMW 325i convertible with 5-speed manual, in the distant past. It was very hard to shift into first gear when the drivetrain was cold. After I switched the transmission oil to Red Line MTL, the transmission was much easier to shift.

 

the caveat is "your mileage may vary" Not saying that there's a lot of failures, just that most of the ones that do occur are from dirty unchanged fluid. If you want to guarantee you get 200K plus miles, change the ATF.

the factory recommendation is marginal, and of course they want you to trade in, why do you think the recommended maintainance schedule ends at 120K? So you own a 2nd gen Prius? You know then that Toyota does not ever recommend changing the trans fluid? So are you going to drive it to 200K with no trans fluid change? Good luck.

 

Just curious, do you have many customers that change every 30K? Especially up there, where heat isn't a major factor? I'm a fan of 30K to start and every 60K thereafter, but I could see every 30K if you lived in Phoenix.

This is definitely a case where paying an extra couple hundred bucks on parts markup makes sense.

That's a good idea. Being in SoCal, I think OP would have no problem getting a salvage 09 with less than 30K (ideal). But since junkyards can be pretty shady, being able to verify mileage provides added piece of mind.

 

Toyota has a reputation to uphold for building dependable, long lasting vehicles. As a business practice they understand that this type of "planned failure rate" is ultimately self defeating. American automakers were famous for this in the 80s and 90s, and look where it got them.

I'm not disagreeing with you about changing the fluid, I have always changed the trans fluid in my cars regularly regardless of what the manufacturer says. I'm just disagreeing with the motive you have assigned to that recommendation because of my long, long experience with the brand.

Service intervals are a point of comparison for consumers too. Carmakers are under a lot of pressure to lengthen maintenance intervals to compete with the competition. BMW doesn't recommend oil changes but every 25k miles for God's sake. Going to a "lifetime" fluid was a marketing decision, they did a test study and figured impact on the owner public would be minimal, and the impact on the consumer at the point of vehicle sale was significant.

As for why does the maintenance schedule end at 120k miles? It has to end somewhere...and everything just gets repeated from there out.

Your logic doesn't make sense, you say that trans failures are rare, but the failures we see are because of not changing the fluid. There are PLENTY of Toyotas out there with 200k miles on them...on the original trans...and with the original fluid. So...if I'm going to need "luck" to get to 200k miles on the original fluid, how are trans failures rare? The VAST majority of owners don't even follow the factory maintenance schedule, let alone do items not listed on it. Why don't we see them failing everywhere? Because not changing the fluid doesn't necessarily mean you're going to experience trans failure.

Are you actually a Toyota Prius tech or is that just your name? I know several Toyota techs, including my personal mechanic who was a Toyota/Lexus master tech for 16 years...and his opinion of Toyota and their maintenance schedules is very different from yours.

 

30k is a catch all, 30k to start and 60k thereafter sounds like a good idea, with an inspection every 30k to see if it's dirty. I've done a couple at 60k due to dirty fluid.

Next time I do one I'll take a photo of a fluid sample, it's obvious that there is deterioration/ contamination. Maybe fluid analysis is in order, it's probably been documented elsewhere on this site.

 

I would think that Toyota in general builds a very good car, and their extended life fluids are remarkable, but I would also think that the bean counters have some influence, and any "lifetime" number has to be an average of what lifetime means.

Part of how BMW increases the interval is by having an 8 quart capacity. The engine could live with 4 but the oil lasts longer with 8, and if I recall correctly it's synthetic.

I agree not changing the trans fluid does not necessarily mean trans failure, just that it increases the chances. I don't think either one of us can quote hard numbers because to my knowledge no studies have been done.

It's only cheap insurance to increase your chances of not having a problem. After all what is the OP of this thread about?

I was with Nissan for 8 years, Honda for 15, and now with Toyota for 6 months. Honda has done very similar things with long life fluids and in spite of all the engineers best efforts they are having issues, especially with the V6 trannys. I've seen no major issues with Toyota's but certainly a lot of minor ones.

 

I just replaced a transmission on a 2010 Prius and it cost me $1500 for a used transmission with 1700 miles on it. I did it myself so I saved all the labor charges. The transmission on a 2010 prius is cooled by the same antifreeze that cools the inverter.
You have to take the engine out completely to replace the transmission