Down to the Rapture

Yes, they do. Which is why I win in the Facts argument (I also win in the proper use of punctuation argument).

Anyway, you asked if somebody could name a larger nondenominational healthcare organization than the Seventh Day Adventists (which, by the way, rather than being "one of the smallest Christian groups in the world" as you portrayed them are really "the largest not-for-profit Protestant healthcare provider in the nation."

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_System"]Adventist Health System: [/ame]Budget: $8.354 billion USD (2008)
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Red_Cross"]American Red Cross:[/ame] Budget: $9.05 USD billion (2006)

 

I give money to both religious and non-religious charities, including Oxfam America, American Friends Service Committee, and the Salvation Army. For five years I worked as a volunteer at a homeless shelter which served breakfast and supper to all comers, and during that time I cooked and served supper once a week using ingredients I purchased out of my own pocket.

Organizations are neither believers nor non-believers. People are. In the U.S. there is so much prejudice against atheists, that most do not label their organizations as such. Most self-styled Christians are people who go to church because it's socially expected of them, but don't actually live their beliefs. And a lot of atheists work in organizations that are nominally religious because it's more convenient than seeking out secular organizations. An atheist friend of mine belongs to a church in Michigan because it's expected of her; she runs their development program with a village in El Salvador because the church provides a convenient venue to do the charity work she is personally drawn to, as an atheist.

I thought you were a Bible literalist. But now you gloss Jesus's words. Everywhere he went he told people to give away their property, but you manage to spin his words into just the opposite of what he preached throughout his ministry.

And when you make radical statements, you are expected to cite proof. You can't just say, "There's a unicorn in my garden. Prove I'm lying."

The United States is a majority Christian nation. Not surprisingly, most of EVERYTHING is done by people claiming to be Christians, from philanthropy to purse snatching, to wife-beating, to murder.

 

(Deleted because Jesus told me to)

 

Gentlemen PLEASE!!!! Treb made a general statement about the size of the Christian health care system and a lack of any such Atheistic such system. He was challenged to show evidence of his claim on the Christian side. He endeavored to do so, only to have his attempt ridiculed as local, rather than international. In fact part of the evidence he linked to was international, the SDA health care system as well as his reference to the Catholic health care system.
I'll be the first to admit that using terms like "I win" can easily be misconstrued and probably shouldn't have been used. On the other hand, claiming that he is advocating violence because he referenced a hunting accident should also not be made.
Another poster stated:

Using the same line of reasoning, I would like to see a link to the reference he started with quotation marks. There is also an inference in the above quote that the Red Cross is non Christian. While it (International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement) is undeniably non denominational (unless you consider Muslim's a denomination), it's symbols indicate it is both Christian and now Muslim. The following are quoted from here.

But what I find most interesting is that, according to Wikipedia, is that acknowledgment of the Crescent representing Muslims.

I would like to find some major, world wide health care or charitable organization that claims to be Atheist (there are certainly pleanty that claim to be Christian. Whether they are Christian in the way they act is debatable). Perhaps I simply haven't dug deep enough. :~)
Let's do TRY to keep it civil, PLEASE!!!
Tom

 

You won't find any because Atheists don't work that way. They prefer to leave charitable work and superstition completely separate. Only Christians are so insecure (and for good reason, IMHO) that they need to that seal of approval.

 

Whew, if I made fun of your beliefs like that, I certainly would not be a Christian,...but then in fairness, you've never claimed to be Christian. I will venture to guess you see yourself as civilized though, and to me that's just not a very civil thing to say here.

I don't even understand that comment. Who's seal of approval, our own?

 

Misrepresenting and twisting facts again is that the only way atheist liberals can win a point or argument, shameful. I said a larger non-governmental organization than the Christians. BTW Jared Loughner was a grammar nazi too, are you two acquainted?

 

Sorry, thbjr, you're wading in a den of vipers here and I've been here longer so I'm assuming Jesus's kick nice person style of clearing out the truth-changers at the temple.

I only need reference daniel's quote here . . .

 

ound:ound:ound:​

 

daniel if I'm not allowed to say "their's a unicorn in my garden. Prove I'm lying" then you're not allowed to say

without citing proof or is that another double standard you apply to people with a different point of view than your's and not to yourself?

Your not going to run like icarus did are you?

 

*blink* Are you saying the Red Cross is a branch of the government, or are you saying Seventh Day Adventists aren't Christians?

Or are you saying Christians can only win a point or an argument by calling a blatant well-documented fact "Misrepresenting and twisting facts", because that's the main gist I'm getting from you.

 

Hey what is going on here? There is a party and nobody invited me!

Tom, welcome to FHOP.

 

If you see somthing in Wikipedia, it might be true. In this case, according to the ICRC, that isn't true.

The history of the emblems

 

and His diciples asked "who then can enter the kingdom of heaven?", and He replied, "with man, it is impossible, but for God, all things are possible."

 

which translation doesn't read that way?

 

It is such a blessing to have you guys here ( you know whom I am talking to).

 

Treb: I claim that very few people who call themselves Christians really are, because I assert that if you believe something you will act as though you believe it. Jesus had contempt for wealth, told his followers "If someone steals your jacket, give him your shirt also," and if someone hits you on the cheek, turn the other that he may strike it also, and "Be as the lilies of the field, for neither do they sow nor reap but trust in their father to provide for them." A real Christian would own only the bare minimum for survival and trust to god for his daily meal, would never judge anyone, would never strike anyone or take up arms even in self defense. Capitalism and Christianity are mutually exclusive because Paul said that the love of money is the root of all evil, and capitalism is built upon the profit motive: The striving for wealth.

When Jesus was asked if people should pay their taxes, he replied "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto god that which is god's." Given Jesus's consistent attitude of contempt for money, a vulgar but accurate translation would be "Shove Caesar's money up Caesar's nice person." But neo-conservatives, most of whom call themselves Christians, bitch and complain to high heaven about having to pay taxes. If they were really Christians, they'd be happy to pay their taxes because it's just filthy lucre, issued by the government and belonging to the government. But they are too greedy. They want to keep their money for themselves. They love their money.

 

Daniel,

there is more common ground on that statement than you might believe.

Billy Graham once estimated only 25% of churchgoers are truly Christian.

In regards to money, if people from the 1950's and earlier did a Rip Van Winkle sleep and woke up today, the proliferation of credit cards and other borrowing would shock them as it was regarded by many at that time as sinful. In fact, Ford waited over a decade to do car loans after GM started it. The two big things I blame for The Great Recession is gas guzzling and debtheads.

 

Jesus did not hold wealth in contempt but the selfishness and avarice that so often accompanies it. You are so far off on the meaning of what the Bible says and so full of hate for Christians that I see little hope in you ever acquiring a better understanding. But I will say that you should try to understand the Bible and who God is for yourself and not rely on what some other hate monger says to feed your arguments. What can it hurt? If we're wrong and there is no God where's the harm in being as the lilies of the field or turning the other cheek or giving all you can to the poor? You do admire those qualities in people don't you?

If there is a God and your not a good person nor do you choose to believe then whoa, I don't know what to say or what will happen but I don't think the odds are stack in your favor. But who knows things may work out, God does work in mysterious ways. On the other hand you may just decide to believe the hate mongers and reject Him knowing that He is real so isn't it great that God gave us "free will" you get to choose and you won't have to worry about burning in hell forever and ever, cause that along with the notion of a rapture isn't support by a deeper more sincere reading of the Bible.


However, if you keep writing specious crap like this

I'd lay odds there will be a period of punishment I'm just saying it won't be eternal. :yo: