Down to the Rapture

He's suggesting that if women had access to safe abortion, any given individual might never have been born. Of course, change anything about the past, and any of us might not be here. So basically, he's saying we should not provide health care to people who lack the money to pay for it, because if we'd had national health care a generation ago, this or that person might never have been born.

Of course, if we were a Christian society, nobody would be poor (because the rich would give the poor their money) and everybody could afford health care.

But then, you live in a civilized country, which I do not.

 

Come on smart guy, you can figure that one out can't you?

I have heard first hand the horror stories of the Canadian health-care system. Yes the US system is flawed too... blah blah blah.

 

Actually I didn't think of that one, but good point!

Don't let the door hit your back-end on the way out.

 

I thought you were ranting against a health care system that might allow poor women (rather than just rich women, as now) to get abortions.

Instead you were ranting nonsense about Canada having poor health care. Listen, there are horror stories about health care in any country, including the U.S. of A. Canada has a first-rate health care system, available to all. The U.S. has a first-rate health care system only for people who can afford it.

 

Like I said, I heard first hand the problems with theirs. I don't believe trading ours for one like theirs is going to make a difference.

I agree there are problems with our system as well, but I would rather try to fix it (not what the current administration/congrass has in mind) rather than trade for another less than stellar system. I am sure if some smart guys like you sat down and thought about it, a pretty simple solution could be derived. Getting the bureaucrats and their assistants to frantically come up with something just is not going to work.

 

You mean it's not working, because that's the system we currently have - one run by insurance company bean-counters.

 

It is working, just not as good as it could for sure. I have to admit that the morale of doctors these days seems pretty low. Why? I have some thoughts. But perhaps this a for another thread?

 

It will make one whole hell of a lot of difference to people who have no insurance and therefore get no health care now, but who would have full coverage under a Canadian-style system!!!

What criteria do you use for saying our system is working? An infant mortality rate higher than any other industrialized nation in the world, and some non-industrial nations??? People losing their health insurance because they got laid off in the recession? People going to the emergency room for non-emergency care because it's the only place that will look at them? Children with no access to health care???

Godallmighty, man, what kind of a Christian are you when you think that a health care system that denies coverage to children is "working"??????

Not to mention that health care costs 4 or 5 times as much FOR THE EXACT SAME SERVICES here as it costs in Europe!

 

^ like I said, probably a topic for a different thread...

 

We are in Fred's, and this has become a religious question with.

so why not answer the question here?
Or is clean water in religious war torn foreign countries more important than American kids?
We just would love to see how christians interpret the non need for improved health care for poor domestic kids.

 

^ oh the drama queens... who said health-care was a basic human right much less a God given right? Yes it is quite unfortunate that there are those that suffer without medical attention. But I suspect that those without probably haven't sought out help. There are a myriad of programs out there now, most of them very inefficiently run. I know of them because my wife took the time to research them because of our autistic child's needs. There are many people out there to help navigate the system too, free of charge (of course this may vary from state to state).

I suspect if the bureaucratic red tape that holds this countries health-care system down was eliminated then everyone could enjoy coverage.

Lets not get started on the education system too that puts the doctors in so much debt..

 

A friend of mine used to ask: "Where is god when children are starving?"

 

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way trying to speak for Spidy. Having said that I will attempt to answer both Daniel and patsparks questions. I'll start with Daniel question. The way I understand Spidy's comment concerning a "working" health care system, in light of the very important and valid points you make would be something like this. If my Prius is only hitting on 3 cylinders, the power windows don't work and the AC has no freon, it's still a working auto even though it is in need of serious repairs. Spidy did acknowledge, "I agree there are problems with our system as well". I hope the car example equates, somewhat, with the point I think Spidy was trying to make.
Patsparks, to address you question, my personal belief is that in God's eyes there is no difference between a child suffering in the US from diarrhea due to a lack of proper medical care and a child in a war torn country suffering from diarrhea due to a lack of clean drinking water. As Christians, I believe we should be equally willing to help both children.
I hope that is along acceptable lines for an explanation, although both cases are definitely tragic.:frown:

Oops, I see Spidy responded while I was hunting and pecking on my keyboard.

 

There you have it. Spiderman doesn't think children have a right to health care. And he certainly doesn't want to pay taxes so that other people's kids can have health care. Jesus said you should give away EVERYTHING you own, but then Paul said you can forget everything Jesus said, just so long as you believe Jesus was god. Damn, that's pathetic!

 

Your drama is pathetic D.

 

Tom, don't try to explain anything for them, they will just spin it to give the outcome they want. It is all about demonizing the Christians or whatever religious group happens to make a statement. Logic and facts be damn.

But thanks for trying.

 

Last time I read the bible, it said that "as much as you have done [good deeds] it unto the least of these [he was talking about the poor, the sick, and the imprisoned], you have done it unto me"

So, how does christianity justify itself out of actually taking physical care of the poor, the sick, and the imprisoned?

Yeah. Another reason I left.

 

Daniel, care to provide me with that text? I honestly don't remember ever reading it.
Thanks.

 

Dear lady, your quoting of scripture is spot on and I must admit that while it is never enough, there are those of us trying to do just that. ADRA (Adventist Development and Relief Agency) does, as well as Maranatha, and while I am in no way trying to toot my own horn, I support these ministries and ministries like them every month, both financially and as a volunteer. I'm also reminded of a woman named Mother Theresa and a man named George Muller who also did just the work you are inquiring about. I could list dozens more, but you get my point.

 

I'm not spinning anything.
I'd just like to know why a good christian would be opposed to a better health care system at home while talking of scooting off to Africa to put a filter on a water pump.
Oh it might be that by putting a filter on a water pump you can also try to convert the locals and tell them god is responsible for the reduced mortality rate among the population when in fact it was science.

A very simplified time-line and only my thoughts, no proof or study to quote.
Convert some of the population to christianity => fix the bad water & improve farming practices => improved health => credit god with the improvement => convert more people => tell the christians anyone not a christian is not as good as christians => religious war.