2011 Chevrolet Volt gets an EPA certified rating of 93 MPGe and 37 mpg in gasoline mode

I don't have anything against The Volt. As a supporter of Prius and upcoming change and efficiency in the automotive world, I'd rather see the Volt be succesful. Just like I want to see The Leaf be succesful.

But just because it is an "Alternative Offering" doesn't mean I'm going to automatically call it "brother" and not be critical of it's realities.

Just observing from a distance I think the problem with The Volt is GM.

IMO all automakers need to look at what Toyota has done right. The Prius is a success...and it didn't have to be. It could of failed. But Toyota supported the Prius, and even today, Toyota is expanding the entire Prius family of vehicles.

All along GM has acted like The Volt was an Automotive Frankensteins Monster, something they were creating that they were simultaneously proud of, and afraid of...

Recent comments by GM CEO's suggest to me that GM still doesn't get a lot of the concepts of Hybrids, Electrics and alternative automobiles...they are still locked into the past of "Cool Looking" and "Powerful"...

I've hoped for success for The Volt, but when I saw the numbers for how limited the release was going to be...and how initially expensive the product was going to be?? I simply felt GM still did not get it....

Until GM releases an "alternative" automobile...in an accessible price range and in amounts that make it obtainable for those that might actually want to purchase it, then IMO all GM is doing is creating a product to promote an idea they want attached to the company BUT they aren't really creating a product they have much desire to really market.

 

At first blush the Volt would appear to not live up to the much anticipated years long hype at all!
Now, how about that Leaf? Any of them out in the real world yet? EV all the way!:cheer2:

 

Camry Hybrid - 33 MPG (Midsize)
HS250h - 35 MPG (Compact)
Volt - 37 MPG (Compact)
Sonata Hybrid - 38 MPG (Midsize)
Fusion Hybrid - 39 MPG (Midsize)
Insight - 41 MPG (Compact)
Civic Hybrid - 41 MPG (Compact)
CT200h - 42 MPG (Compact)
Prius - 50 MPG (Midsize)

Out of all those hybrids, Volt is the only one that requires Premium gasoline. Volt costs the most and emit the most smog forming tailpipe pollution.

Volt has the 2nd smallest ICE displacement (1.4L), 1st being Insight and HCH (1.3L). Fusion Hybrid has the largest ICE (2.5L).

Honda IMA hybrids have the weakest electric motor (15 hp) and Volt has the most powerful (150 hp) yet Volt MPGs are at assist hybrid level.

Volt also has the slowest top speed (100 mph) of all the hybrids.

 

It didn't sell. Oops, nobody bid for it.

 

the cloth on those seats looks Ford-Fiesta-ish...

 

I've read the reviews. It seems the volt has much better handling than the prius and does not "feel" heavy. It does not really handle as well as it should and people have blamed the tires. The mustang has rave reviews compared to the other cars in its class, but the set up really is not as good as it could be. Live rear axles have gotten better, but they are there to be inexpensive to manufacture, not to handle great.

It came from me, as claims of awful mileage were exagerated. I used the best 4 toyota mpg cars. The prius beats the volt if you forget to plug the volt in. The yaris, tch, and hs250 get worse mpg than volt in charge sustain mode. So either the huge bulk of toyota's fleet gets horrible milage, or the metric is wrong. That was my point. If your metric is what is the best phev out there, it has to be the volt since no one else is making one. My bet is hyundai sonata phev or ford focus phev will have the best trade offs in 2012 when they and toyota are in the game. Until then a 3 year lease on a volt is the only game in town. Yes I have seen a few production volts on the street, I doubt the drivers are going to use much gas in a year, or complain about their electric bill or maintenance costs.

On tail pipe emissions, I will get on my little anti-CARB soap box. The epa really need to come up with new measures for phev and hv. By 2016 most cars will not idle, since the will have some form of idle stop, yet this is a big part of the test. There is no scoring based on the amount of pollution based on ev versus other miles. If the car is in ev mode 80% of the time shouldn't the pollutants at the tail pipe get divided by 5. Then we get to the crazy definitions where cars with 0 ev miles are advance technology partial zero emissions because they warrent their batteries. The honda warentees don't even look like they are worth the paper they are written on as honda seems to reprogram their at-pzev vehicles instead of replacing the batteries. CARB after leaving LA at the top of the bad health air polution list has now switched the game to regulate co2. What do the new rules say? You need to buy offsets if you produce too much, and you can buy these from a lumber company that reduces co2 by chopping down old growth forests and plants a tree farm. So much for carb actually having rules to protect the environment. Rant over.

 

Prius aside, How far out of the margin of error do those numbers lie.

What's with the hang up over Premium? Until recently, and perhaps still, Toyota recommended 89 octane for their V6 engines. Where was the outcry over that? Right, most people just dumped 87 into the tank without a concern. So is true of most premium engined cars.
Carbon monoxide is what kept the Volt from getting SULEV II. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it isn't a smog forming emission. How much does add to smog forming emissions than the others?

The others' ICEs have a more direct involvement in spinning the wheels. That and other differences make comparing engine displacement less than apples to apples.
Same with electric motor size. A non-plug in hybrid has just one source of energy. The motor is there to make the most of that energy. The Volt has two sources of energy. Its motor is sized to propel the car as most people expect, while trying not to use the non plug energy.

100mph top speed. Guess I wont being out racing Mustang GT police cruisers then.

Is it blatant, or just honestly overlooked? The Volt is designed to be an EV with a generator thrown onboard to alleviate the concerns the common American has over EVs. That meant sacrifices had to be made. The EV range is shorter than a pure EV, but is still sizable. Fuel economy is good but not the best in CS mode. Maybe they could have done better, but it is still early in this segment's life. Yes, getting an EV and a normal car would likely work better for most. Whatever the reason, real or imagined, there will people who won't go that route.

 

GM should have been gutted , union contracts torn up and started from scratch with the VOLT division spun off as a separate company under FG care.

 

I like the concept behind the Volt. 2 years ago I was considering the Volt as a future purchase (now at least 3 more years away, as I now have 2 Prius' at home ). But as pointed out earlier, the worst thing that the Volt has going against it is GM. GM not likely to make this a big success, but maybe they have put another kickstart in the industry. With good hybrid availability increasing each year, now the Volt and the Leaf are out, and the future for EV or at least plugin hybrids are really starting to look good.

The mpg's of the Volt don't impress me too much for long range driving, but for people who do mostly city or short-hop driving, it should be excellent. As an example, both me and my wife drive less than 20 miles per day for probably 80% of our driving days. I think if we owned the Volt, a typical fuel fill-up would last a good 6 - 8 weeks. I'm not sure what we will get now, as we've had our cars 2 weeks now and still have plenty of fuel left in each.

In 3 years, depending on fuel prices and car costs, I may be willing to trade in a Prius for something more efficient. A better quality Volt may be one of those cars I consider, if GM can refocus away from studly vehicles and prioritize on the car itself. More likely though, the PHEV Prius will be more in line of what I want.

 

There is no such thing "more efficient" than Prius, yet. Hybrid gasoline world speaking.
In the mean future, as results are coming on, seems Toyota is actually getting better with...ermmm...Prius PHEV. So there's your next possible solution.:rockon:
Volt is neither a quality product, neither efficient, actual gen is too far from the GM objective itself, if there was one after all.

 

GM's rep, and their pre-marketing for it, is the biggest thing against the Volt. None of their vehicles how wowed me. The only I have liked was the hand me down '86 Buick I got from my grandfather. Any problems were likely do to me being ignorant of car care at the time. My family actually had many GMs through the years and I don't recall any of them spending multiple or long stays at the shop. We had an Astro van for over a 100 thousand miles. The HHR has had some problems, but that may be do to being a first model year. I don't have any experience with any other post 2000 GM.

Precisely. Focusing on the Volt's CS mode fuel economy or lack of fifth seat is the same mentality that people use to insist on a 4x4 for the 2 or 3 times a year they have to drive in the snow. Some people actually have a need for large truck or 4 wheel drive. Most don't. The Prius can't tow a trailer of horses, or even a trailer. For the person that needs that, it's a horrible car.

If a person regularly exceeds the EV range by a fair amount, or need that middle seat, the Volt isn't the car for them. That doesn't make the Volt a bad car overall. It's just bad for them. For people who commute, alone within or near the EV range, which is most people on the road, the Volt can be a great car.

 

USB, I'd add a couple MORE hybrids to your list to compare to the Volt:
Luxury hybrids
Lexus HS 250h, 34MPG (combined) costing $34,600
Lexus CT 200h, 42MPG (combined) costing $29,100

Heck, even the $42K Lexus SUV hybrid blows the Volt out of the water ... the RX-450h has almost 300hp on an SUV platform yet it still gets 32 City / 28 Hwy ... for virtually the same cost as the Volt!

.

 

Flawed logic. If the owner's typical trip is only half the EV range, they bought the wrong car - overpaid $5k for the battery (assuming $10k for the entire pack) and the gas engine. Just like the 4x4 example you gave.

The owner should be constantly going over the EV range so he is using both of the powertrains he paid for. Simply put, if you buy a hybrid but only use one powertrain, you should have bought an EV or gas-only car.

Ok, Volt can use the gas engine if the battery runs out. It sounds good only if it provides the best of both worlds. This means the Volt should provide efficient use of electricity and gasoline. Leaf midsize uses less electricity per 100 miles than the Volt compact. Prius midsize uses less gasoline per mile than the Volt compact. Volt uses 41% more(*) electricity and 25% more gasoline than the PHV Prius. No matter how you cut it, Volt is one heavy car that guzzles gas, electricity and interior room. On top of that, it costs a lot.

If the Volt gets 40 initial EV miles, 50 MPG in CS mode, 230 MPG combined, can runs on E85, AT-PZEV emission and 10 years / 150k miles warranty and costs nicely $30k, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The bottom line is, Volt is overpriced and under-delivered.

(*) - Based on CCSE real-world test numbers. We don't have the official EPA numbers for PHV Prius yet.

 

They are there, check again. :eyebrows:

 

If the logic is flawed, it applies to the LEAF too -- at least to a degree. I figure I will size my battery to have about a 33% range buffer greater than the distances I expect to drive so that I do not come up short on windy cold days.

Fwiw, I think Toyota followed this line of reasoning with their smallish PHV capacity: drivers should use *at least* 100% of the usable battery capacity every day to have the cost of the PHV at least somewhere close to an HV. Rational, but I am unsure if it makes for good marketing.

 

I agree to that degree. Prius shouldn't have 11.9 gallon of gas as well. I am paying extra to hold more gas than necessary. But it is a small price to pay and the penalty/cost is so small that it is worth the convenience. This is not true with the Volt.

 

My post wasn't limited to just 20 mile ranges.

We have been over this.
People, as a group, don't seem to be rational and rarely do what they should. I agree most people would better served getting an EV and a gas powered car than getting a Volt. A good portion aren't going to think that way. How many still believe the Prius won't save money, gas, or pollute more? How still believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11?

ER-EV was marketing bs, but it does sum up the design philosophy behind the Volt. I t focuses on the EV aspects, and adds the generator for when the EV isn't enough. There is cost in dollars and efficiency to do it the way they've done it. But it is what it is.

Reminds me something Evan has said here a couple times.
You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Yes, the Leaf is more efficient than the Volt in EV. That's the efficiency cost made. Two though aren't enough for an honest comparison. How does the Tesla Roadster and the NEVs on the road rate?

The cost is too much for Chevy. Many probable felt $20,000 was too much for the Echo-sized first gen Prius. A comparably equipped Cruze(same platform) is $25,000. I've heard the Volt battery cost range between $10,000 and $14,000. Throw in the motors and other required components, and the sticker price is reasonable. Maybe in better times GM would subdized the price some. The least rates are a deal though.

Why don't include all the available hybrids? There's Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, and some GM two-modes left off the list. Maybe some of the higher rated straight gas vehicles.
My point is the Volt's gas only fuel economy is competetive. Start factoring in its EV mode, and it will start using less gas than those cars for most people's regular use. Total fuel cost may even be less.

 

That is just more FUD. You are saying they are not satisfied? That is bull. The guy is trying to mark it up $6000! He is looking for a profit.
(I don't think he will get it!)

 

He was asking $6000 over list.

 

I still haven't made up my mind why the Volt has such high energy consumption/distance. Certainly the weight is part of the answer, but that is due to extra battery and 'performance' upgrades. I am not willing to pay the $ and weight for the suspension -- others are. Some are willing to pay for a bigger motor -- I am not, at least in a PHV configuration because I expect my driving to be blended in order to maximize battery use.

Some people say it is the lousy ICE choice, but EV mode is not much more efficient. So we are left with the outstanding question of whether GM's transmission is a lemon compared to HSD. I truthfully do not know, but since I do not want the other performance choices GM added, the Volt is a poor choice for me.

An emerging picture of Volt purchasers appears to be people who like better than typical performance EV driving, and are price and energy efficiency insensitive. They view themselves as 'domestic energy hawks,' but I think this is just a rationalization of the Volt's deficiencies because they refuse to let oil consumption get in the way of their convenience or desires. Put another way, they are going to drive their Volt hogs on long trips or fly, not take the train.

All in all, this strikes me as a very, very small group of consumers.