Toyota Unveils Entune, App-Ready Sync Fighter, At CES

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

Doug -
I am not sure that you understand the level of frustration I and apparently many other 2010 Prius owners have with JBL/Nav system. Not only is the product crap, but we are treated like idiots when we complain the the customer "service" staff. Things like telling us that the reason the address database is so far off is for our safety? Wth? I frankly wasn't aware that I was safer getting lost than finding the address I was looking for. The speed of the system is also disgraceful, especially when compared to a portable Garmin or Magellen, whose price barely exceeds that of an update DVD from Toyota. And those units have a free traffic update service, not requiring a subscription to XM. And the FM reception? It is terrible - upgraded from awful by a swap out of my original unit. I don't need an upgrade - just a unit that works the way it should.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

Hi Doug,
To your question to Skilbovia toward the end - why did he buy it, I can answer with my experience of the Prius buying experience in late 2009. I knew the Nav was crap (I think there are other threads devoted to that theme). I was excited about the ATP, but frankly, I thought the then close to $5000 premium for it (close to $2000 of it for the Nav package, + the difference amount additional for the ATP exclusive components) as steep. Well, eventually I did buy the 2010 with ATP. But for close to 5 months before my purchase, I was hunting for a Prius IV/V (my preference was tilted more to a V) with no package, and till the end, I didn't find one. No package, because I was absolutely outraged that Toyota would try to force on me an uncompetitive Nav system for close to $2000 at the minimum, because the other distinct feature that was important to me, leather interior, could not be had otherwise. Eventually I bought the car with ATP as I felt I was getting it for a very good price, and since then I am mostly happy with my purchase.

I wouldn't go so far as to demand a replacement to my nav system for free, but if a new and competitive factory offering is going to be introduced, it'd be nice if it were made available to those such as us for a reasonable fee.

BR,
Mihir

 

Hi Doug,

Please know the community isn't whining for a free handout, we'd just like to make the most of the gen 3, which, with it's reputation for tech-i-ness, has let a lot of us down in the objectively sub-par (compared to competitors and now, toyota's announced system) nav unit

 

This should make the aftermarket head unit manufacturers scrambling. It is way more advance than any of the aftermarket units out there.

 

I don't expect free either, but it would be very nice of Toyota to either sell the new unit at cost (plus reasonable labor charges) to we Prius owners stuck with the older Toyota nav systems, or give us a trade-in allowance for our old systems. Or better yet, both.

I really like my Prius, just not the navigation system.

Vic

 

To everyone:

Thanks for the discussion about your vehicles. I have known there is frustration with the Audio/Nav, but have never heard it articulated so loudly. I appreciate that, and am going to inquire internally about this issue more. I can't say I'll come back soon, or ever, with a response, but I think it's important enough to investigate. So thanks for bringing this to my attention once again.

Yes, I am the Prius Product Manager, but only in my own mind do I control everything about Prius. Actually far from it... I have only a certain span of control. It's just how we do things at Toyota - it takes a huge team of cooperative individuals to get our work done. No single person is in control of, really, anything.

I do hope you are excited about Entune and our new audio systems, and keep an eye out for more info. We're pretty excited about the new features we can bring to everyone - even if yes, it's only on your next vehicle, not the one you own now.

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

I would have to say that its mainly due to Toyota's history of customer complaints, for the most part Toyota never listened to customers, hopefully that is starting to change.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

By the way I just got the FM recall/TSB done on my Gen III with JBL/Nav and it still sucks for FM reception - not happy at all, but I absolutely love my Prius just hate the FM and the "insta" play on the iPod interface when going through a list of tracks.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

Doug

First off I love my Prius so this feedback is intended to make it better.

I greatly appreciate the Apple iPod example it really makes the point we are trying to make. Quite frankly I see the enTune like the iPhone 3/3GS to iPhone4 comparison. Apple provided free fixes and updates for the 3G/3Gs such as MMS/ICS calendar support multi receiver SMS, WiFi fixes, BT enhancements etc etc, but some things are only on the iPhone4 due to H/W needs etc and I am fine with that. However if you look at the GenIII JBL/Nav there are many fixes that could be done to the as is system: the "insta" play when browsing tracks on the iPod interface, the driver lockout of the system that decreases my safety (ie I now stream on BT and reach for my phone rather that keeping my eyes up and using the touch screen plus it forces me to try and use the NAV rather than my passengers), the FM radio performance that is horrendous, no 1.3 BT controls shown on the screen only via the steering wheel. Net net give us a few fixes and we will never consider Ford and Sync etc to cause us to sway from Toyota.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

Well said. I worked in software development as a tester for many years and have seen how long can take and how costly it can be.

I suspect that many people don't realize that "product manager" at many companies, including my former employer meant that they were marketing. Our company had program managers who were more in charge of development of a particular area/features.

Personally, I have no Gen III Prius. I'm reasonably satisfied with the nav system that came w/my 06 (yes, it was costly) and there are some things it does that even current PNDs don't do/do well. The competitive landscape was different back then. I don't like the expensive nav updates, but this isn't a Toyota specific problem. I don't like the lockout, but Toyota/Lexus has been doing this since well before 06.

I know people have brought up Ford Sync/myTouch. I've played with current iterations briefly and I can see why Consumer Reports has slammed it mainly due to complexity. It Ford tends to be the exception in terms of feature set amongst non-luxury cars.

Hondas, for instance, seems to ship (to this day) with apparently even more primitive nav systems than Toyota. I've played with them briefly and one can see how they're panned at 2010 Honda Civic EX-L Review - Coupe/Hatchback - CNET Reviews and 2011 Honda Accord EX-L Review - Sedan - CNET Reviews.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

I lived with Ford Sync for a year. Here's how complex it is:

1. Plug in your memory device which could be a 160G WD Passport, flash drive or MP3 player to the USB port. Sync indexes the drive.

2: Press the talk button on the steering wheel and say "USB" Sync says "USB"

2. Press the talk button on the steering wheel and say "Play track "She Loves you". Sync says "Playing track "She Loves You" and plays the popular Beatles tune. Or you can say Play Artist "The Beatles". Sync says "Playing Artist "The Beatles" and plays all your Beatle songs alphabetically by song title. Want them shuffled? Say "Turn Shuffle ON" Or you can say Play Album " Meet the Beatles" Sync says "Playing Album "Meet the Beatles" and away it goes. Or you can say "Play genre Oldies" and you get your oldies because Sync reads the ID tags, not the file names. To show you how good the voice recognition is, I used to have to say Play Album "Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends Ladies and Gentleman Emerson Lake and Palmer Disk 1" before I changed the tags. Sync would echo word for word and play the album.

3 To make a phonecall say "Phone", Sync echoes. Then say Call "Sue Mobile", Sync echoes and makes the call with out all the verbal abuse you get from the crappy voice interface in the Prius.

I'll admit it takes a few minutes of stick time to get used to it the first time but the results are well worth it. So please don't dis this fabulous capability in Ford products till you've actually taken time to live with it awhile. I'm very spoiled by Ford Sync which is why I have no patience with the crappy "high end" audio system in my Prius.

And by the way, did that Ford Stereo system ever crank! Great sound! I've owned 3 different Toyotas with JBL systems and I've had to fade all of them to the back to turn down the tweeters. The worst is the one in the Sienna. Sixteen speakers or whatever the hell it has an all you hear is the tinny center speaker above the radio. But I digress.

 

Customer service groups simply take questions and give stock answers from a script. They generally are not allowed to say anything unscripted. As far as requests for some feature to be fixed, they check it on a list. Then when there are certain number of complaints for a specific item it gets pushed up the chain of command.

So, it is one part "maybe we can help some customers with our stock answers" and one part "marketing data gathering."

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

I've briefly tried Ford Sync on a Focus within the last 2 years (IIRC, had only a single line dot matrix display and no LCDs) and briefly tried it in an early Fusion Hybrid I happened to stumble across at CES including trying it w/my iPod attached via USB.

I've also briefly looked at more recent iterations (sorry, got the name wrong, it's MyFord Touch) at an auto show, a few months ago.

Rather than try to paraphrase CR's criticisms, see Consumer Reports Cars Blog: MyFord/MyLincoln Touch: A touch of intuition, or insanity? and MyFord Touch: Consumer Reports along with http://pressroom.consumerreports.or...-score-too-low-in-suv-tests-to-recommend.html.

 

I just can't seem to make myself care about this sort of thing, even though I know I ought to keep trying.

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

I had an 09 Honda Accord with their OEM Nav system, and I can give an honest comparison with my 2010 Prius Nav system.

Maps: from what I can see, the Toyota has superior, or at least newer maps. In fact, for my area it has better maps than the last Garmin update I had, but not quite as good as Google Maps.

Routing: the Honda lets you preselect roads that you prefer and use it for standard routing. The Toyota lets me authorize certain types of roads in advance. The Toyota gives me an option of 3 different routes for every destination that I choose.

Routing, incomplete areas. Honda identifies what they call "unverified" areas. This seems to about the same as what Toyota calls "incomplete" areas. Big difference is that Honda will let the nav route through these areas, as long as you authorize it in the nav settings. Toyota will not route through these areas at all, and has no option for routing through them. Honda will provide turn-by-turn nav through these areas, and Toyota ceases any turn-by-turn instructions as soon as you reach an incomplete area. At this point, in the Toyota you have to stop listening to the voice, and actually watch the navigation screen to which roads to take on the map (nice safety feature.... NOT!!!).

Recalculation. If you veer from the navigation route, Honda will begin recaculating very quickly, within seconds. The Toyota nav is very sluggish to begin recalculation, probably taking 2 to 3 times as long.

Entering or changing destination on the move. Honda lets you do it with ease, Toyota does not let you do it at all unless it is a predefined destination of some sort.

Accuracy. Have not used the Toyota nav system enough to tell. The Honda seemed to be about as accurate as my Garmin system.

Lest it seem that I liked the Honda nav system, I can honestly say that I was unimpressed by it. I preferred the Garmin system much more, and at the time I owned the Accord I also had a Civic with a Garmin-based Kenwood in it.... much better system. But compared to the Honda, the Toyota nav is even worse. The Toyota's biggest redeeming feature is that it has good maps, but it just doesn't want to use them properly.

Vic

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

My impression in a nutshell of the Toyota nav software - it is deliberately crippled, and whoever (individual/team) was in charge of driving the specification was absolutely clueless about the maddeningly frustrating reaction their decisions would have on us, the end users. Cases in point:
1. Inability to set destinations, route points, etc when the car is in motion. Presumably to reduce lawsuit liability. I don't feel the voice recognition alternative comes anywhere close to fill the void.
2. The maddening screen split on approaching the next turn, that intends to show the geometry of the roads/intersection. I feel often times it gets the geometry very wrong, and there is no way to disable this.
3. The split screen again - it comes up I think a quarter mile before the turn. If I am not paying attention to the spoken directions, and glance at the screen, I panic and quickly take the first turn that comes up before realizing that I turned too soon.
4. Route recalculation is slow. I suspect that's due to the DVD system. I never had an integrated nav before, but when I learnt, before purchasing, that the Prius nav runs by DVD, I knew I would be shelling out for a decade old standard.
5. What's with having to set the correct region before punching in the address/POI?
6. Why can't it get the time of day from the GPS signal, like my portable Navigon? No need to make DST on/off adjustment. (also what's with having two clocks in the car, one on the dash and another in the nav?)
7. Estimated time of arrival is guaranteed to be wrong because the nav assumes three kinds of highways with assumed/programmed speed limits for each. Just another amateurish touch that makes you roll your eyes with disbelief.


That's all I can think of for the nav feature alone, with no mention for the lack of iPod integration (I actually jumped at the opportunity to buy the older unit with no USB, as I had read all the negative feedback on the USB and iPod integration here on PC, before my purchase).

All in all, the audio and dashboard electronics in the car seem to be an afterthought in the overall development of the car (such as, why so many buttons, button everywhere?). I don't mean the audio quality and acoustics of the car (I am not an audiophile and I am not unhappy with the audio quality), I mean the user interface and overall integration (such as, repeat, two clocks ).

 

Re: Toyota Announces Entune Multimedia System at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show

I'll comment the best I can from my 2nd gen's nav system. I did have a week w/a Lexus HS 250h which has the same generation nav system as the 2010 Prius but some more features.

1. Toyota/Lexus has been doing this for AGES. Yes, Honda's don't have the lockout.
2 and 3. I've never found a problem w/the geometry being very wrong. However, it seems in another thread, Toyota may have switched data providers for North America from (the superior) Navteq to (the inferior for NA) Tele Atlas w/the 2010. It's definitely Navteq on my 06.
I've sometimes gotten confusing/contradictory guidance from the screen vs. audible prompt at some forks, but it's rare.
I'm quite sure you can disable the split screen w/guidance arrow and geometry on the right side. IIRC, if you press one of the onscreen buttons on the left and select full screen map view, that should get rid of it.
4. Not slow for me at all.
5. Never had to do this unless my destination is outside the currently selected/default region. (99.99% of my destinations are not. Only have needed to use this when traveling out of the state/country.)
6. Agreed, but it's not big deal to me.
7. No big deal to me. I've never depended on that on my Garmins.

FWIW, I posted a (not definitive) comparison my Nuvi 350 to my 06 Prius' nav system at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...dvd-nav-vs-other-nav-system-2.html#post675023. I now use a Nuvi 1200 instead but pretty much everything applies and is the same.

 

I suppose so. In the meantime, I'm going to listen to a record on the Victrola.

RE the nav system in the GII Prius: mine never paused to "recalculate," it always served me well (unlike some of the portables I've experienced in rental cars). A Tom-Tom I got once was soooo slooooowww, that I had to pull over and let it catch up. And changing positions in the car didn't help either, I don't think it had to do with satellite reception, just processing power.

The system in my Lexus is similar to the GII Prius, and I like them both. Part of me wishes that full functionality was available while the car is in motion, part of my thinks the only way that could happen is with a sensor wired to the passenger seat, and making the nav system accessible only by the passenger. I could see how fiddling with the system could cause problems while underway.