What Drives Us Episode 45 "The Volt Experience and 2010 in Review"

Great show!

I think, however, that Chelsea was acting more like a GM employee than a completely unbiased reviewer.

 

Yeah, I hoped she was just excited by having a shiny new toy, but her remark that the $41k price was very reasonable just planted a chrome GM logo on her forehead!

And what's up with you guys joining her in calling it an EV?! Even the Govt. won't go that far, it's a plug-in hybrid!

 

fwiw, it too sounded like the Volt was lumped in with the EV's instead of hybrids.

As for Chelsea sounding pro-GM, I have no problem with that as long as she isn't the only one talking in the show! I think biases in a committe approach like this is good, it gives us listeners a chance to hear more sides of the story. Heck, I think all types should have a voice, even Honda's...

 

:cheer2: Jason Holderman!

 

Wow pro-GM I think is a little harsh. Chelsea clearly pointed out it was the lease pricing that made either the Volt or the Leaf reasonably affordable options and she said it would be a hard choice as the lease price was basically identical. She also said given the next gens' promises for all the EVs and Extended Range vehicles buying would possibly have to wait for gen IIs, but leasing was a solid option.

Also come on who wouldn't be pumped to have either a Volt or Leaf. I drive a Gen III and would gladly park it for 3 months to run a Volt as my daily driver. I think Chelsea would throw the Volt under a bus in a heart beat if it had big issues and point in take she didn't mince words that the charger install, the white interior option and the OnStar hookup were not great or took multiple tries to get right. I sure heard lots of discussion on the lack of a freewheel button like the EV1 and Rav4EV had in the past.

Great episode folks and it was nice to hear Topsy made a brief appearance.

 

I don't find that harsh at all. That is the way it came across to me. *shrug*

She did have valid points, especially regarding the lease price vs. the Leaf or even GenIII Prius. I do, however, disagree that the $41k price tag is reasonable. Even with government incentives it is overpriced and is simply ludicrous without them. The car has already been heavily subsidized by tax-payers so to claim the price is reasonable just doesn't sit well with me.

 

I know I would have bought a Volt if it was even remotely possible, but being in a backwater state just made it pretty much impossible for a couple of years and then the tax incentives will be going down. It was just a couple of weeks after GM's rollout schedule came out that I decided I couldn't wait, and I'm actually pretty happy with that decision.

41K is not really reasonable to me, it was hard enough to go with 32K for my Prius V...

 

I started a thread that may give insight into whether the price is reasonable or not.
http://priuschat.com/forums/chevrolet-volt/87847-volt-sticker-price-fair.html
We have the Cruze available that is built on the same platform. Once equipped with close to the same features and widgets, we can derive an 'hybrid premium' for the Volt.
It's $16,000.
In terms of the additional components and materials for the hybrid system and EV range, is the Volt's price reasonable.

 

Hi all,

I know, I do come across as fairly enthusiastic about the Volt- and I am, just as I'm excited about the Leaf, and the Fiat, and the iMiEV.....that doesn't mean I'd support a product I don't think is good though, or that I won't call out what I think isn't. The Volt's not perfect, and I thought I was pretty straightforward about that. At the same time, I think we need to be careful about overemphasizing something like the user interface screens (esp in Gen I) when the car itself is really pretty good, and from a range/driving perspective does generally do what GM claimed it would. So yeah, I hesitate in trashing them too hard on some of the smaller stuff- and I didn't want to spend the whole show nitpicking. I've driven other EVs, and I have similar thoughts about many of those- some stuff can be improved, but doesn't necessarily negate the overall effort or make it not worth acquiring. Other stuff I'm less forgiving about- we've known for 15 years that the charger stuff was going to be a pain, so while some skinned knees are to be expected, there's a little "shame on you all for not thinking this through sooner" element for me. And I'm more sensitive about the attitude with which the feedback is received- no biggie to me if the car has an issue, but I wanna know you have as much skin in the game as I do about fixing it. That really fell down on the OnStar problem, while they've been really responsive about other stuff.

On price- it's not that I think $41k is reasonable if you define that in terms of affordability. Even with the tax credit, it's out of my league. But I'm not too amped up over the MSRP because it's about what I figured it would be. The Gen II EV1 was $44k, the RAV4 EV was $42k, etc. And I expected these early vehicles to be more expensive, both because of volume and new technology. But also, while GM initially publicly aimed at a $30k MSRP, they figured out pretty quickly that it wasn't going to happen, so for the last 3 years have been saying it would cost ~$40k. So while I think we were all hoping for a hail mary after Leaf announced their pricing, I can't heavily fault GM for pegging the price they'd said they were going to nearly all along. (Though even I was one of the first to say that to be utterly defensible on that point, they shouldn't have tacked on the extra $1k.) And while getting price down on Gen 2+ will be important, with only 10-12k cars coming next year, I know that that price isn't going to keep them from selling those cars, even if it it too much for many of us. I do applaud their effort to do a lease with a monthly payment that low (and that payment is really, really reasonable- I sold a lot of Saturns with a higher payment) to make it more accessible to the mainstream buyer sooner, but I'm more concerned with whether or not they provide a good buying and ownership experience to those early folks. And if I'm gonna take issue with GM, it's on that- there's been some mistakes made on the marketing side, for sure...and those matter to me more than whether my iphone app worked, as frustrating as that was.

I do want these early programs to work, no question- it's the quickest path to more EV programs from all of them. And I'm known as a general cheerleader, even for GM- whether or not you believe it's the right product, and even with the mistakes, there's no question they've put some serious effort behind it. But my comments have less to do with me being an unabashed fan girl, and more to do with picking my battles, and my methods. You can be sure that they're getting all of our totally uncensored feedback on every little nitpicky feature, but I'd hate to see someone continue to drive a gas car over a plug-in because I put undue emphasis on something that may not even matter much to another driver.

Besides, if I covered everything in one episode, there'd be no reason for the gang to have me back! And that would be just sad... ;o)

 

ps- sorry, especially in a casual forum I sometimes get lazy and use EV as a general term, or PEV, or plug-in...

and rumors I'm hearing are $35k for the Prius PHV.

 

It's ok, Chelsea. I wasn't trying to flame you for your review of the Volt. I was simply stating the impression I got from the review. I think your opinions are highly regarded by most of us who are interested in the technology and the future of cars and you gave a great review and definitely changed my opinion of the Volt with regards to how well it functions. I still have my negative opinions of GM and that is coming from someone who used to race 2 CM trucks, a Corvette and a Trans Am while being president of an LS1-based car club.

I like listening to your thoughts and opinions and I hope you get sucked in by the What Drives Us crew so I can hear more. :rockon:

Justin - the Ranch Prius guy at the Berkeley Green Drive Expo

 

Aww shucks, Tony- told you I was shy!

Hey Justin- no worries, I didn't take it as flame. Just figured it was worth further explanation...

 

I would thank her but then it looks like I'm sucking up. So I'll just sit here and act like the bad guy who attacked Chelsea.

 

Thanks Chelsea, your post explains your motivation much better than the spot on the Volt ever could.

I'm very excited about all the hybrids myself, and I really did want a Volt to begin with. (I wish they would have put a different ICE in it though, I can't figure out their choice there.)

Now the EV only one's, not so much, my commute wouldn't allow a range limited vehicle.

 

I will not be too surprised by a $35k Prius PHV msrp, but only because I can imagine Toyota pricing the car at $2k over a similarly equipped Prius after federal credit.

That takes care of the all-you-can-order trim package. I'm left wondering how long it will take for plug-in to be an add-on for the base Prius.

 

I would like to see it at a price where it is just under 30k after tax credit. Since the tax credit will be less (I think about $4000) the target price for me is $33,500.

 

Thanks for clarifying, Chelsea! It's just that if I had been drinking something, it would've sprayed out of my nose when you made the price comment! Since I was at work, that might've been embarrassing! My hope is that these cars will be quickly brought down to a price point where they won't be regarded as a niche toy for the wealthy and arrogant... I'm looking at you, Leno!