First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next week

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Is there any truth that GM lost something like a billion dollars on the EV-1 project? (IIRC, read that in Automobile Magazine review of Volt).

Honestly, I don't recall any mention of GM's economics of the EV-1 project in 'Who Killed ... Car'.

I wouldn't expect any company to keep producing something they are losing their a$$ on .... IF that was the case. It's not like any other company was saying, 'we could make bank within 5 years selling an highway EV' (starting 10 years ago).

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

We were going to get a Volt. We had/have an order for delivery in Janurary. But after the real world numbers came out, we decided against it. The Volt will get 40 miles on electric if you're on flat ground and doing 50mph. We live in a hilly area with a 50 mile rt commute. And the same goes for the MPG. 37 on flat land, much less in hills.

We've had a 2005 Prius and the hills are a MPG killer. We figured we'd only get about 30 miles on electric and only about 30 MPG on the other 20 miles.

Couple this with it's brand new technology... Then the .9% APR on 60 months, we decided to buy another Prius. Pulled the trigger 3 days ago.

Still kinda of sad about the Volt. Maybe when thier second generation comes out we'll reconsider. Remembering how much better the 2nd generation Prius was, makes me think the Volt will be much better too.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Thanks for that. I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this. I read a 19 day, 1,291 mile trial on the Volt, actually the founder of gm-volt.com. He spent $99 on energy costs.

I calculated the '10 Prius would cost ~ $81 is gas for same mileage. (1,291 / 50) * $3.15/gallon (he paid $3.35 for premium, so $3.15 for regular)

but, Volt may use less gas.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

according to this, NJ off-peak electricity is 8.2 cents/kWh vs. 19.7 cents on-peak.

http://www.firstenergycorp.com/Resi...ments/files/BillInserts/JC/PURPA_Res_7-10.pdf

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

"Unfortunately Jeffrey Kaffee only got 3 miles before he realized his battery wore out. Also the dealership didn't fill the car with gas"

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Of course not ... that's what GM paid for hard core lobbying to kill the cafe/carb related legislation that forced GM to build 10% smog free cars, as well as unrecaptured costs (R&D that would have normally been amortized over larger quantities of cars, but for destroying 'em) and all other cost elements offered up to baloon the number.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Hey Cycledrum,

Is there any truth that the CEO of GM was given the boot for not making enough EV1s to amortize the 1 billion dollar investment into the EV1 that GM made, when there was sufficient demand for the EV1 from the public? He admidts himeself that this was his greatest buisness mistake as GM CEO. The great demand for the Leaf even after 11 years demonstrates this most dramatically!

He chose to kill the EV1, and he chose to throw away that 1 billion dollars. California and other states with large popluations in above-freezing weather would have gobbled those EV1s up. All he had to do was turn on the switch. Instead, he took it as a buisness loss.

You, Sir nead to Get your head out of the sand and think after you accept this contrived marketing malarky from GM.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I'd be happy to look at the authoritative references of the true economics of the GM EV-1 project. I'm just saying a magazine, I'm quite sure it was Jan '11 issue of Automobile Magazine stated GM 'pulled the plug on the EV-1 project after they had lost 1 billion $ on it'.

And like I say, and correct me if I'm wrong, WKTEC, as I recall did not mention the numbers, GM economics, the possiblity of turning a profit and when with the EV-1. Does anyone really know when GM could have profited on the EV-1, best case scenario. I'd like to know, really.

And if GM did sell the EV-1, what do most think would have been a reasonable price for the car such that GM could have profited in a reasonable time frame? $50k, $60k ?

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can follow the links to find the references. But yes GM and the US taxpayer probably did lose $1 Billion on the ev1. Going forward at the point of crushing the vehicles, GM did make a bad business mistake.

The company if it had built the ev1 in quantity would lost a great deal of money. But the R&D was already paid for so losses in each car is continued in small production runs might have paid gm back with more good pr than the losses. Car companies often do this with special cars. Instead the bad pr of crushing the cars and killing the patents probably cost gm billions of dollars in lost sales.

No, but they did have the seeds of the volt in the ev1 program and and that would have been less expensive to develop and likely highly profitable by now. They also would be way a head of nissan right now in pure evs. GM has stated there R&D on the volt was $700 Million, Costs in 2011 should be arround $40 K/car. This cost per car should decrease when they increase production in the 2012 my and work out some of the kinks of battery manufacturing. GM talks about recouping the R&D, but really these "costs" were wiped out in the bankruptcy.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I saw my first Volt in the wild on Friday! It was traveling down Rt119 south by Uniontown, PA. It is a good looking car and distinctive from others enough for me to recognize it.
I am certain that GM will see the obvious truth that "Yes, Americans Want Efficent Vehicles!" Perhaps one day American auto manufacturers will stop wasting the time of our best and brightest manufacturing minds and build truly innovative products.
On a side note. I am reading "Internal Combustion", By Edwin Black. This book should be required reading for all young people. It is amusing to find out that Henry Ford and Thomas Edison were close to bring out a mass produced car that traveled 100mi on a single charge. Back in 1914! Here we are today still supposedly striving for the elusive 100mi mark. Our masters need to change the tune every now and then.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

austin, thanks for that. I read most of Wiki's EV1 page. As most know, it's the way GM handled things, offering no alternative, that stunk. Let's hope GM moves forward to a Gen2 Volt.

There were many electric cars 100 years ago. ICE cars became better and electrics began to vanish. But, electrics are around in other countries and are finally coming around here again.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car[/ame]

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

And Briggs & Stratton developed a hybrid drive train for cars in the early 80s. Which reminds me of the conversation friends and I just had least night. There are hints that Archimedes had started working with steam power. Even if he had lived longer, without rubber for gaskets, the research may not have advanced far.

Lead acid batteries were the only viable choice available to B&S. They just didn't have the power density to make the system worthwhile at the time. The Holden Ecommodore made use of aluminum and carbon fiber. The first Insight had an aluminum body. That and low production numbers likely meant Honda wasn't much per car sold. The only cars making extensive use of carbon fiber on the road are the super sports cars. The Corvette is the most reasonable and is still six figures. It also used super capacitors, which are still in the testing phase and field trials.

The prototypes produced under a similiar program between the big 3 and US government also used aluminum bodies. They also relied on diesel engines, so likely may not have been available in CARB states if they had gone to market.

I'm sure there are plenty of BS reasons that would piss me off to hear on why the technology was shelved at the time. However, one of the Volt's complaints is the price. Do you truly believe these hybrid cars would have sold at similiarly high prices during the times of cheap gas?

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I hope they can tweak the ICE to get better MPG.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Hyped hybrid: The Chevy Volt gets average mileage, for a hybrid- Yahoo! Autos Article Page
Recent consumer reports article on the Volt.

Interim conclusion:

The Volt works, but depending on how it is used and where, it may not save you money, especially in the Northeast or California. In those regions especially, the Prius remains a proven, more cost-effective choice for green motoring.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

While I agree, after reading early comments on the Volt forum discussions, the mileage on electricity is not meeting advertised expectations .... especially in real cold weather. Some of us predicted that.

Can you imagine paying >$40K for a vehicle, then having to wear a coat inside the car to keep warm?

Remember when Chevy raised expectations of a 360 mpg Volt? That must have been a typo .... 360 miles TOTAL range must have been what they intended??

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

I only paid $35500 & wear a coat & hat inside the car to keep warm.

Well, I'll be damned. Chevy actually built & sold a Volt. Congratulations on building a hybrid. I wonder what the NJ's VIN is?

How far does a Bayer go on a charge? I imagine top speed is probably around 25mph & keep in mind that back then roads were more likely paved with bricks or stone & found in large cities.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

It would be almost impossible to pay back the plug in premium for either the Volt or the Prius plug in. The gas savings VS a non plug in Prius are not enough.

I do not see the need for the plug in system to pay itself back, in the same way I do not need a turbo, convertible top or nav system to pay me back either. If I want it, I will look at the cost and see if it is affordable.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

2010 Prius = 50 MPG
PHV Prius = 75 MPG

At $3.20 per gallon, the difference after 150K miles balancing out looks realistic... especially with the tax-credit.

Expecting the price of lithium batteries to come down by the time the tax-credit expires is realistic too.

Some of us will see higher MPG as well.
.

 

Re: First Chevy Volt EV hybrid taken home from dealer today, 360 will be delivered over the next wee

Actually,

I cannot imagine NOT wearing a coat when I venture out of doors in the winter...Why is this such a common comment amoung our pundentuous commenters? When is the last time you saw somebody out in shirt sleeves when the temp was below 45 F ? Like - NEVER ??????

It seems to me to be a non-issue, brought up to try to smear the Volt over a total NONISSUE....

Its winter, you go outside with a jacket/coat on. So, it only makes sense to make yourself comfortable in the car, by running the temperature controls at something less than room temp. And get another 5 miles range out of the Volt.

In other words, I doubt highly that people are buying the Volt for the luxury of not having to wear a coat in normal out-of-house activities in the winter.....

They are going to buy these cars to avoid using gas....