Snow tires or what?

You speak as if there is only one kind of snow. I have no snow experience more than an hour east of the Continental Divide. But out here on the west side, its variants span a huge range of physical properties, varying by both geography and time.

Typical densities start very high at the low elevations of the coastal ranges, e.g. the Olympics. Typical snow turns lighter, drier, fluffier, and easier to ski and to drive in as one moves inland eastward and to higher elevations across each successive mountain range, at least all the way to the Rockies. There is a very good reason why the premier skiing is in the Rockies, not the Olympics.

I don't know which band, if any, is most comparable to your Minnesnowta conditions, except that yours cannot be comparable to the coastal ranges.

 

I believe the Inuit have 192 words for snow, it can vary so much. And they didn't even drive cars in it when those words were developed!

 

No actually I haven't. I said our car does just fine in 8" of snow and it wouldn't stop me from driving the car. I'm not the one who seems to be debating what my car shouldn't be doing--when it obviously can. If you want to continue debating every possible kind of snow, conditions, drifts, black ice, or which way the toilet water swirls as it flushes in different parts of the world, please PM me instead. I know what our car/truck is capable of, thanks.

 

<smirk>

Seriously, for the Prius or any other car, get 4 studded Goodyear Nordic winter tires from Canadian Tire. They are very reasonable, have the soft tread compound, and the very aggressive tread to dig through snow/slush

They are also directional to be safe on standing water too

Yes, they are very noisy, studded or not. That is a fair tradeoff to improved traction

 

It amuses me to hear people make blanket statements about what their car or truck can do in snow, without fully qualifying the exact conditions. The incredible ice/snow/temperature variations make for nearly infinite permutations of conditions.

I can clearly remember being stuck in a Jeep C-J5 in perhaps three inches of snow, even with very aggressive non-studded snow tires. It was uphill on pavement at transition temperatures. The snow was wet with the consistency of partially hardened concrete, spread over a slick layer of ice. The Jeep made four perfectly shaped cups of lubricated wet ice, each holding a tire. That Jeep wouldn't move an inch in either direction.

But anyway, who are we to make claims about what someone's vehicle can or cannot do. That makes about as much sense as claiming that the Titanic could sink.

Tom

 

Yes, it's quite amusing what claims people can make--especially those people that find amusement in discrediting other peoples' experiences. Can you point out some blanket statements? I'll start. My (second) post in this thread was in response to (what I consider another) blanket statement that read:

This same person claims there are 192 kinds of snow, and they haven't come back to clarify if it's all 192 kinds or just one kind, etc.... that high centers and stops all Prius' (except for mine I guess). My second post in this thread was to provide a singular (very recent) example in which I DID handle 6+ inches of snow in a Prius--and it handled just the same as any other FWD car we've ever owned (possibly better) and 8 inches isn’t quite enough to bother me. Interesting? Apparently not. Instead, I was told I'd of gotten stuck anyway, be dangerous, and that I haven't experienced enough kinds of snow.... etc.... The gist of my posts were that this type of snowfall and conditions are quite common here and it's not something I'm afraid to drive in. But it looks like I need to forward a note to the Governor to close all public roads every time it snows because we've been doing it wrong all this time. I also have a new reason to tease a family member about their Jeep.

I guess my 20+ years of driving in Minnesota winters (6+ months per year) just isn't enough experience though. Either that, or Mother Nature miraculously only gives us the "easy driving" snow. Perhaps if I were to get a Jeep and get it stuck in 3" of snow, then I would have enough experience? I made the comment in one of my posts above that I know how to drive in our weather. I didn't make all encompassing weather claims (but did make claims of the last 20 years here). Any statements I've made--pertain to my own experiences. Perhaps you read more into it?

Could ABC inches of snow ever stop XYZ vehicle? Sure, if there was the right combination of factors. But how common are those factors that result in 100% truly unmovable? I'm not going to get into all 192 (or infinite) factors. But up until now, I've experienced a sufficient # of events to be comfortable driving in it. I won't be putting our Prius in storage for the winter because you had one event in your driving career in which your Jeep was stuck in 3 inches of snow.

Interesting note: taken from another thread, someone else made these bold claims about their Prius:

Then someone else made this claim, even admitting other people say it can't be done in a Prius:

Wasn't it you was you, qbee42, that made the above statements? Aren't you making bold claims about your car and your skills without fully qualifying the exact conditions? How come you can rock a Prius while others say it can't be done? If you don't fully clarify your exact conditions, people might now assume a Prius can be rocked free under all conditions.

If I'm going clarify any of my previous posts, it's going to be that the MAJORITY of the time our Prius will handle whatever mother nature has thrown us (and yes, my pickup will still laugh at 8" of snow here and it might laugh at your Jeep). There may very well be future events when I must revise my "wild claims." Note I never claimed my vehicle(s) were unstoppable in all conditions.

I could also describe some of my own previous winter driving experiences that had high pucker factor, but they don't actually involve snow depth. One involves true white-out conditions and another involves the occasional "fun" of dealing with the 600 foot elevation change from one side of our city to the other. Now that I think about it, the latter story IS a case of unstoppable because it was freezing rain and I was sliding down hill.

Anyway, the only REAL winter problems I personally acknowledge with a Prius (for being a Prius) is this: crappy OEM tires from Toyota and a traction control issue that affects at least some 2004 models or others (but not ours for whatever reason).

Bottom line--we love our car and know what it can do. 12+ inch snowfalls are nothing new to Minnesota (much less 6 or 8 inches), and we don't "close down" because of some snow. TIRES MATTER. So do driving skills. I firmly believe in having a good set of winter tires. If only we could use studded tires here, then my Prius would be unstoppable . If you want to view something amusing about our state, go watch the movie Grumpy Old Men (part 1). We enjoy our snow, and it doesn't stop us. But contrary to the movie, we don't knock over the garbage cans anywhere near as often as the movie suggests.

The only thing I apologize for is for being way too wordy while defending my life's experiences--therefore cluttering up this post even further. But if I have to keep defending myself, I have no problem with that. Hopefully the original poster isn't scared away.

 

c'mon now if you boys don't play nice you'll be sent to your room

 

Yep, that was me that said I can rock my Prius. It's pretty easy to do with a 2006. However, rocking doesn't always help, Prius or otherwise. It all depends on the conditions.

Optimus, you brought this on yourself by making absolute claims and then digging in your heels to defend them. You should have qualified your claims in the first place, and then no one would have called you on it.

On the other hand, I'm happy to hear that your snow conditions are consistent. That must be one of the advantages of living on the dry side of the Great Lakes. Our conditions here very all over the map: dry powder one day, heavy wet stuff the next, crust over fluff, pellet snow, ice - we pretty much get it all.

As for Inuit words for snow, they have about the same number that we do, plus a number of modifying suffixes. The 192 word long list is a hoax.

Tom

 

Second that thought! Best all around tire going, I have a set on the Prius as well as on the Subaru.

PS Having lived all over N. America, I can state with reasonable experience that Pac NW snow is far and away the hardest snow to drive in. At or near sea level, it often comes just at freezing, often time falling through warmer air so that it is barely snow, but falling on colder pavement that freezes instantly to a glaze. At a tiny film of water from warm tires and the coefficient of friction nears zero. Other factors that affect it's "slipperyness" is the higher water content of coastal snow, often many times more than higher/more eastern snow. Add the higher water content, the temps so close to freezing, quick accumulation and packing by traffic and you have a recipe for disaster. On top of that, Seattle/Portland/Vancouver etc don't have state of the art snow removal technology and plans. One can't blame them since it is a fairly rare event. Does it make sense to have a bunch of hardware that sits 364 days a year for the possibility of one day of snow,, perhaps every few years?

Icarus

 

I shouldn't jump into this fray, but his first post on that line did qualify it as: 8" of heavy stick-to-your-shovel snow. I went to college in the same town as Optimus is in (can only be one with a 600' drop from one side to the other, bet it has a ski resort in city limits too), and have had a couple scary experiences driving in the conditions there. It's not an easy place to spend the winter.

That's interesting to know. I would bet serious skiers/snowboarders have just as many words as the Inuit then, with powder, crust, slush, corn snow, mashed potatoes, etc.

It's always interesting to hear people complain about the first snow of the season, as if "other" people had forgotten how to drive in snow or a bunch of warm-weather transplants moved in and that's why traffic is so bad. In reality, the snow at the beginning and often the end of winter is more dangerous and slippery because it usually falls near the freezing/melting temperature. Snow in the middle of winter in colder parts of the country is drier and has better traction (and usually fluffier) and doesn't cause such problems, similar to going up in elevation in the Rockies I guess.

 

Ok--I guess you want to keep going.

I think you need to re-read the thread. As you've shown in the "vsc lite" thread, it appears you don't read things very closely before typing a response. Sorry, just another recent observation of mine about what I see. Anyway, what claims are you trying to counter-prove and call me out on? I don't recall making any claims that go beyond my own personal experiences. Perhaps you just assumed "the extra stuff." Either that, or you're trying to show how knowledgeable you are (and/or you just like to argue). I think I was sufficiently clear in my second post about the conditions the recent day in which my Prius did what someone else claimed a Prius can't. How much more detail do you require? Are you not the least bit trusting if someone simply says "I did XYZ?" Or do you need undeniable proof (which I haven't actually offered more of yet). If you want me to "prove" all conditions in which I've ever driven in, well, thanks but no thanks. I don't have that kind of time. I realize this is the internet and things should be taken with a grain of salt, but I'm not going to type out my life's history (I already type too much). Besides, I could have made the whole story up anyway. I'm sure there must be great motive in making such bold claims for no reason. Everyone knows it doesn't snow in Minnesota. That reminds me, I need to go water the palm tree this afternoon.

I'm not actually looking for tips on how to rock a Prius either, nor am I searching for tips on how to drive in snow. As you've continued to hint, you seem to think we don't get much variety in snow here (as you call us a dry side) and you're somehow "better." Hence, my sarcasm. We indeed do have widely varied conditions overall, and quite often from one side of the city to the other. You clearly know very little about where I live (yes, "nerfer" nailed it and knows where I'm talking about). However I don't feel compelled to prove or justify our weather to you. But I will try to be more clear with the sarcasm next time I attempt to point out a case of the "pot calling the kettle black." You can make claims without justification, but apparently other people can't. That was my point about Prius rocking.

As for 192/infinite kinds of snow, perhaps you should just enlighten us once and for all by breaking it down exactly which kinds of snow a Prius can and cannot handle. You have now made the claim you pretty much receive it all where you live (types of snow), and we clearly do not (<-- note sarcasm here). I really haven't "added" any new information to my previous wildly bold claims, nor have I provided any additional details regarding conditions on that recent snow day (other than to refer to general seasonal/yearly experience). Yet are you saying I've somehow convinced you??? I hope not--I haven't added any new "fully qualified conditions!"

Here's a different perspective--I myself perhaps did the first "calling out" in this thread regarding the comment that a Prius can't handle 6+" of snow. But I think I did it a little differently than your method. I didn't start out by making degrading comments. I only reserve those for once the mud starts slinging , and I don't mind defending myself. Though in this case, I seem to be defending myself for claims I don't actually recall making. Alzheimer's runs in my family, but I don't think I'm old enough yet. What were we talking about?

No offense, but I hope this isn't how I end up getting to 14,000+ posts too.... (sling)

 

Easy there, Optimus. 95% of the time Tom's a pretty cool guy. At least for 95% of his posts that I've read, which certainly isn't 14,668, but enough to get a pretty good idea of the guy.

 

Understandable. I haven't noticed his posts until now. So far, I would say his attitude towards me has perhaps not been in that 95%.

 

Optimus, I don't have anything against you. We got off on the wrong foot when you made the blanket statement that 8" of snow couldn't stop your Prius. If you had said that 8" of your typical snow, or 8" of the snow around here wouldn't stop it, that would have been fine. I am a stickler for technical accuracy, and 8" of snow can easily stop a Prius, given the type of winter conditions found in much of the country.

As for the VSC lite comment, that has nothing to do with carefully reading threads. I was mocking the spelling error in the title. VSC "lite" must be a different animal that the VSC "light". My humor tends to be dry and erudite, so once in awhile it just confuses people.

Tom

 

This is the claim that triggered my response:

'Any kind'? 'Only time'? Unless you really meant to limit this to Minnesnowta, please refer back to Icarus' comments about the Pacific Northwest. Note that OP is in the PNW, not MN.

If you attempt to come visit me with 8" of undisturbed snow on I-90, I do believe you could often get across wide swaths of Montana. But based on many decades of PNW experience, I strongly assert that your chance of success will progressively fall as you travel west, and drop very sharply at Snoqualmie Pass.

If you run the WSDOT/WSP roadblocks in any car of normal ground clearance, you will sometimes make it through, when the snow is much drier than average. But typically you will get highcentered and stopped, in snow that does not drift in navigable winds. Your pickup has a better chance of getting through, but the wet Cascade Concrete will sometimes win. And when it does, try not to let it happen in the middle of an avalanche chute. Fortunately for your trip, most of the avalanche risk is eastbound, not westbound.

 

Are we now limiting participants in snow-related discussions by region? Or, are we instead supposed to bring our location to the table first (my location is to the left)? I didn't get the memo. If comments about snow in Minnesota aren't applicable, please state why (with technical accuracy). I have relatives near Portland and others based out of Port Townsend. They have all lived many years in Minnesota as well and they don't comment on the snow being so much more difficult in the PNW. I'm not discrediting your own statements--I'm curious to hear your perspective (honestly!).

Did you read post #9 (mine) in which I said:

It seems to me that by the time you jumped in, I had already stated the "terms" of my side of the discussion. I don't recall saying "any" or "all" in the way you've put it. You're taking my words out of context--ignoring what I already said in other (earlier) posts of this thread. I'm "biting back" because think I explained things well enough, and I don't feel like being schooled about snow. I may have less than 200 posts at this point, but I don't sit down and shut up very well (nor am I the least bit new to internet forums).

Let me repeat, --8" of snow isn't quite enough to bother me. Notice I said that statement earlier, and notice that the statement isn't an absolute. It still means eight inches COULD bother me (but apparently not the majority of the time). I have yet to see discussions of winter driving in which ALL types of situations are thoroughly described by every participant (or by anyone for that matter).

Isn't it a bit of human nature for all of our conversations to be from our own perspectives/experiences? There are exceptions to everything in life, and only a few absolutes (death and taxes as they say).

 

As described in my response to fuzzy1, I think I did state the qualifications for my statement--just not in the same sentence or exact same post. I did state my terms (without quoting it exactly) to 20-ish years of driving in our weather here. I didn't say anything about driving in the PNW, Tibet, or any other part of the universe. That being said, we do NOT have "easy" or predictable weather here. Nor is the snow type consistent. Nor am I going to bother arguing who as the "worst" snow. That would be a waste of valuable internet space. I won't go into (many) details or this will end up being pathetically long. But I will say snow totals (inches) probably aren't the most common thing HERE to close down schools, businesses, etc... for the day. Places never used to close at all, even for 20" of snow. The old saying, "when I was a child, I used to walk up hill both ways in XYZ inches of snow" was actually true! We NEVER had "snow days." Nowadays', we're apparently turning into wusses and they're announcing closures before a storm has even hit (it's very sad). What typically stops things here is not so much total accumulations, but more often other (combined) factors such as freezing rain and high winds (with a 600 foot drop in elevation across our fair city). THAT is a challenge. Flat roads? Snow? Not so much. It can be pouring rain downtown, and blizzard conditions over the hill. It can be 90F at the airport and 45F downtown. We don't have the luxury of assuming the weather is the same from one side of town to the other (not that you do have the luxury). If you want to discuss varied conditions (over a very short period of time), just ask me about my drive to/from work 5 days a week.

For what it's worth, I am involved "in the sciences" and I also understand the concepts of accuracy and consistency.

As for the VSC thread, the original poster has 9 total posts. Do they know you from Adam? I'm betting no. Anyone else reading it (and NOT knowing you well enough) may just think....well, I'll stop there. If you're seriously trying to make light of someone's spelling, grammar, typo, or whatever the reason was for "lite" instead of "light," consider this: On a different forum (not related to cars), one particular member declared themselves the grammar police. They started picking on a newbie to the forum. Days went by, and we thought we lost a new member. Well, they finally responded, and they ended up divulging that their quality of spelling was due to a learning disability as the result of an automobile accident. If it were possible to hear a pin drop on an internet forum, that would have been the moment.

It's not my place to "teach" you anything. But keep in mind you might run in someone like me who's not willing just to sit down and shut up. Then again, you might end up really offending someone and you may never even know it becuase they never come back. (P.S. I'm not offended or bent out of shape).

I type too much. Can we sing Kumbaya yet?

 

I try to avoid directly attacking people over bad grammar and spelling, as in many cases they can't really help it. We do, however, sometimes have some fun with it, especially when the error makes for a good pun. Other errors are so common that we try to correct them from time to time. "Break" for "brake", and "peddle" for "pedal" are very common on PriusChat.

I do offend people from time to time. I generally don't do it intentionally (except for Pat), but it's part of the risk when you have a sarcastic sense of humor. It's also part of the risk when you choose to participate in an online forum. You are going to get your toes stepped on once in a while. A new poster also needs to realize that he is stepping into a community. Many of the members of PriusChat have known each other for years. Some are friends in real life. As with any group of friends, there will be a lot of banter, and much of it will not make sense until you learn the context.

The only time I put up a real fight is when someone posts something stupid or wrong, and then doggedly defends it. We all make errors, and we all say things that shouldn't be said. What defines a reasonable person is the ability to see this and gracefully step back. Bullying someone to win a point doesn't mean that they were correct in the first place.

As for years of driving experience, I suppose after a certain number it doesn't really matter. In my case, I have T-shirts older than your years of driving experience. Does that make me a better driver than you? Probably not, but I would wager we are both better winter drivers than some 16 year-old with a shiny new license.

Tom

 

I have t-shirts older than my 20+ years of driving experience as well. I'm not going to debate our ages, who's best, or how old our clothes are. And trust me, my old shirts can't drive in the snow any better than I can (note bad joke). But I would like to think I can qualify myself as being able to drive in some snow, and I still "doggedly defend" what I said regardless if anyone thinks it's "stupid or wrong."

 

Funny you mention that....I remember as a kid growing up, they called for a pretty big snow storm to hit our area. They cancelled school the night before, and we ended up with less than a dusting.

Why open school, only to have 10% of the kids show up? I think it's rather schools cancelling as a precautionary and preventative measure for their teachers and students. No one wants to risk any lawsuits, frivilous or not. I agree with your sentiments about the population turning into wusses in regards to snow. I came to work through every snow storm we had last year, except the last one. Not to mention, we set 2 records with regards to snow last year: snowfall in a storm (just past 27" I believe) and total snowfall for a winter. I worked from home the last storm for a couple reasons: 1) I believed my oil tank fuel gauge and ended up running out that night. 2) They predicted 8-10" more of a "slushy, wintry mix" and I get done work well after dark meaning slushy, wintry, icy roads. 3) DelDuh typically only focuses on main roads for the first 24 hours during and after a snowfall. I don't travel on main roads to work.

To get back to the actual topic at hand, I use Blizzaks for my snow tires. I had NO issues with regard to traction or the VSC light while driving. I did, however, make sure to adjust my driving to the conditions at hand. Good snows and driving to the conditions are your best guarantee at safely arriving at your destination as it pertains to what you can control. Not too much you can do about someone driving unsafely during these conditions.