Another Denier Wakes up and smells the coffee,,

I know, I know... I feel like have relived the crusades in their entirety from just a couple of these threads!:deadhorse:

Come on guys I realize that if we don't learn from out mistakes we doomed to repeat them. But come on,,, lets bring the conversation into relatively recent terms. Most of us are not as old as D and were not around at that time. Also as D likes to pigeonhole all religions, I just want to point out that any of my comments and opinion strictly come from a Christian point of view. I can't and won't speak for others.

So where were we?... :fencing:
p.s. I will preview this post

 

i think it's time to shake the dust off of our sandals and move on.

 

What mistakes ? Christians make mistakes ? Certainly not those that act out the word of god, right ? Funny, I could have sworn you are guy who has been telling us that you *know* (as in, are absolutely sure) of the truth and god's will.

However, I am curious to hear what Christianity has learned that will prevent more of the past 2000 years of Christian history. Is it that the pope is fallible ? That would be news. That the Catholic church should place the welfare of its congregation over the reputation of the church ? That would be very good new indeed. Or how about assuming that an earthquake is divine retribution ? Has mainstream evangelism disavowed that inanity ?

 

Just because Christians KNOW the truth and God's will doesn't mean we follow it. Just like everyone else on this planet we fall short of the glory of God everyday and need to repent of our sins.

As I am not Catholic I won't speak to that. However what I do know about that period is that many of the commoners were illiterate and even if they could read were not privy to the The Holy Bible. Teaching was primarily done through the priests. That made things ripe for abuse.

What is happening today? I think more and more Christians are understanding that there really is suppose to be a deep and personal relations between them and their maker and that if they really want to understand what His will is for them, they speak to Him directly (#1 on the speed dial). I am seeing a trend of the old denominations fading and being replaced with Bible believing, community churches. I think you will see an increasing intensity in evangelism in the coming years. But these are just my opinions... use or lose as you see fit.

 

"Just because Christians KNOW the truth and God's will doesn't mean we follow it." Ahh, but that is the rub. Those christians were just as positive as you that they were the most virtuous known to god, and are sitting pretty eating grapes from the hands of angels right now (until bedtime, that is.)

As for evangelists being a new, better christianity -- allow me to guffaw. We ARE talking about the sect that "fixes" gays, and teaches that the destruction of Haiti by earthquake was divine retribution for a pact the devil made with some guy 200 years ago.

 

Lets just get one thing perfectly clear... I never said I was "the most virtuous" in any way shape or form. On the contrary I have to deal with my sins everyday. But I feel I am improving.

By evangelist I simply mean those that go out and preach the Word of God directly from the Word. Billy Graham would be awesome example of that.

 

Baptists of one variety or another I think.
Find me examples of priests who engage(d) in torture and consider it a sin. No wait, I forgot. They "save" the person, don't they ?

What is the name of the sect that attends military funerals to proclaim that US deaths are god's punishment for homosexuality ? I am pretty sure they are POSITIVE they preach the "Word of God."

 

You said you know *exactly* what god wants. Two sides of the same coin, since the history of religion should teach you, if nothing else, that any behavior can be (and has been) justified as "god's word."

It has been this way with religion from day #1. But you are somehow different, a more advanced, benign true believer ?

Delusional.

 

Actually, it's not a sect. It's Fred Phelps and his family. They call themselves the Westboro Baptist Church, or something like that, but it's only him and his family. All his daughters are lawyers. He provokes people into punching him out, and then he sues them. It's a business model. I guess they make a living at it. He switched from just going to gay pride celebrations to going to military funerals because the gay community figured him out and started ignoring him. He couldn't get anybody to take a swing at him any more.

It's unlikely he or his daughters believe any of it. As I said, it's a business model.

Other than that, you are right, that a jillion different and conflicting sects all believe they know "god's word" and that everyone else is wrong.

 

It never fails to amaze me how some people can be so insensitive, even those the might consider themselves Christians.

 

Never said that. On the other hand I can know what His will for my life is if and when I take the time to listen (pray and read the Word). But as we all know, life intervenes, distractions occur, PC users get their huggies in a wad, etc. Then we are often left to our devices and make the bad decisions (sin).

Again... that is not God's fault.

Nothing advanced about me, believe me.

 

Nothing is god's fault, because there is no god. The problem is RELIGION. That is, the problem is that people BELIEVE there is a god, and they BELIEVE that whatever they want is what god wants, and they BELIEVE that everyone else really knows they are right but stubbornly refuses to admit it and does "bad" stuff just to oppose god.

God has nothing to do with it, because there is no god. The problem is irrational and exclusivist beliefs, and the brainwashing of little children into those beliefs so that they grow up unable to use simple logic and unable to distinguish the difference between belief and evidence-based knowledge.

 

I consider myself an Evangelistic Agnostic ("I don't know and you don't, either").

 

You certainly seem to believe that strongly. Well good luck with that...

 

i accepted jesus when i was 45. successful (in the worlds eyes) logical, science oriented, fairly well educated, happy family man, middle class, nice home, no worries (out of the ordinary). somewhere along the line, God called me. a friend had accepted Christ. that's how it begins. then you do some research, read His word, next thing you know, you realize life is empty, meaningless. He offers something better, something more. living for others instead of yourself. it's a challange. helping the poor, sick, lost. hospitals, homeless shelters, prisons, so many unfortunate people with more on their plate than what car to drive or how large their carbon footprint is. it's a challenge every day. but you can't come to him if he doesn't call you. i don't know why, that's just the way it is.

 

I applaud your interest in helping others, and the comfort you find. Reading this post, however, I don't see anything that requires a belief in the supernatural. You can do all of that without religion or a belief in any god. Many non-religious organizations also provide social programs and provide their members a sense of purpose and belonging. I ask this as a sincere question: what do you see as religion's contribution to the positive things listed in your post?

Tom

 

you're right. there are many non religious charitable organizations. for me, i wasn't charitable at all until i learned how to live for others instead of myself. as for religions contribution in general, i can only speak for Christianity. we are told to do it to bring glory to God out of love for him as our creator. not to glorify ourselves.

 

sorry icky, didn't mean to derail your thread. that's just where it was going when i tuned in. as for God and the environment, i believe we need to be good stewards and don't understand the attitude of some 'Christians' who don't feel that way just as you probably don't understand people who don't care.