Should Car Makers Give Free Updates?

Oh, did I forget to mention the stamped, self-addressed envelope? :madgrin:

 

I think the free firmware updates would be a distant 2nd (5th, 10th or whatever) to car quality and efficiency.
For example, I love my Prius. I wouldn't buy anything else 2-5 years ago.
However, as EVs become available I've dropped Toyota. Once they build an EV (soon hopefully), we will certainly strongly consider a Toyota EV.
Weather or not they offer free firmware upgrades would have ZERO affect on that decision, in my case.

 

Those things would be nice, but would probably not change my car-buying decisions. The most important thing to me right now is that the car be electric. That aside, I've always placed a greater premium on reliability. If a maker of poor-quality cars, like GM or VW offered the sorts of free upgrades you suggest, and a maker of quality cars like Toyota did not, I'd still buy the Toyota rather than the GM or VW.

Oh, so you're backing out on your word now, are you? You promised me a penny if I sent you the listed information. I did. Now send me my penny or you'll forever be known as a promise-breaker. And see to it that the other 6,884,288,672 people in the world each sends me a penny also.

 

as a consumer, i'll take anything i can get for free. but when i make a purchase, free upgrades would only be one of many factors that influence my purchase. as a business person, i want to make as much money as possible. if free upgrades would provide better customer loyalty and improve the bottom line, i would do it. but since no one has as of now, they must feel it's too expensive to experiment with. someone may try it and have success, or, they may eat their shirt.

 

Sounds like it is time to end the free service promotion or make it permanent & increase the price.

 

I didn't say when I would send you the penny. I will send it the next time I'm in postal code AMP67SWE.

P.S. If I had any influence over the other 6,884,288,672 people in the world, I would have them give me a dollar each.

 

I think you should send it sooner -- as soon as our Internet reaches Utar Pradesh.

Of course, they don't use physical currency, only electronic, so the USPS cannot deliver it even if they knew where it was. And adjusted for their inflation, one penny of their currency won't pay for the electrons needed to transmit the information.

 

Free software would be a nice gesture for customer appreciation and loyalty but probably not realistic. I would like to know Toyota's logic for charging so much for the updates.

I would expect them to pass along their costs from Navtech for the updates but their price seems excessive compared to other manufacturers. It is almost like a chicken-egg deal where their price is so excessive that they have fewer customers to spread the cost, if that is their logic. If they would charge a reasonable amount, say $50-100, I would be more inclined to update on a more frequent basis, giving them a larger customer base to spread the costs.

 

If you are not aware, the internet IS available in India. And they DO use physical currency. But regardless, a penny is a penny. Not necessary to convert to rupees to send me a penny.

 

And yet Ammo... some companies get by just fine giving out free software upgrades. Think about it... Apple upgrades iPhone software all the time - and not just for bug fixes. The new "Game Center" feature wasn't available at launch for any of the devices it's enabled for... yet they just gave it away. Likewise, they just give away iTunes, and are releasing new features for it all the time (like the new Ping social media interaction).

What about Mozilla? I've never paid for Firefox, and I can tell you... it's gotten a TON of upgrades and new features over the years.

What about Google? I use their search every day, and it's free... and in case you missed it, the new live search results is awesome. Likewise, I have 3 separate Gmail accounts with 7.5 GB of free storage, and use Google Documents for file sharing with friends all the time. All for free, all with new features added regularly (Like Gmail's recently added priority Inbox).


It's not a question of goodwill. It's a question of providing value to the customer. If I had the choice between two similar cars (and lets face it... there's enough competition out there that every car has it's equivalent at another dealer) and knew that one would be providing me with free feature upgrades to the Nav system and the other wouldn't, guess which one I would buy? Getting new features added on a regular basis would keep the car fresh and exciting. It would make people want to go to the dealership (and while there, why not pay for an oil change instead of using the quick lube place down the street?). Driving all that traffic in there gives the dealers a great chance to talk to people about the awesome features in their new cars. They know how old the person's car is, and can specifically target sales attempts with that information.

Seriously... how often do people just walk into a car dealership and give the sales reps a chance to convince them they need the features of the latest car off the line? I can tell you... I've only been in three dealerships in the past 5 years - The Toyota dealer where I bought my car, the Toyota dealer where the recall work was performed, and a Honda dealer where my sister bought her new car. And every time I've been in a dealership, I've gone around and drooled on the show room cars and admired the features that are available today. Get me in there, and I'll be more likely to think of them first.

 

Okay, but if you die without sending me the penny you will be a promise-breaker. You didn't say when you'd send it, but you did say that you would send it.

And, a dollar??? Boy, you are greedy!

 

BMW typically reflashes the software on their newer cars (as I've been told by a few friends with 335i models). Mitsubishi was updating reflashing the ECU on the Evolution X to adjust engine parameters after its release as well. I don't get the whole "ZOMG it would require a new testing regime and EPA certification!!!!" since it's happened so many times post-release.

 

While I haven't dealt with the EPA at all, I'd have to imagine that it's similar to how I deal with the FDA all the time... some changes would require advanced notice and additional inspection by the EPA, while others wouldn't.

For example, some of our changes need prior-approval from the FDA (up to 90 days after submission), while others don't. It all comes down to what the FDA cares about - patient safety. We've previously identified the portions of our system that directly affect patient safety and those that don't... depending on where the change is, we may or may not need the FDA to pre-approve it. If not, we still have to inform them of the change, but it's a very different (and less costly) process.

I would imagine the EPA would be interested in two items: passenger safety and emissions. If the change being made to the car affected either of those two items, they would get more involved. If it was simply a feature update to the Nav system, they really wouldn't care.

 

Something similar that I remember hearing about - a car maker - I believe Audi - is at least going to consider installing options such as heated seats in all of their cars oe performance upgrades and then allow for the options to be unlocked at the dealership either at the time of purchase or later on. The logic stated was that the manufacturing would be less expensive to produce all the same car and they figured that some people would come back later and upgrade.

 

Again...

Some fledgling consumers think a browser is equivalent to a component in a vehicle, or should be...

I do not.

Flashing upgrades into a vehicle that already has the necessary components installed to do the job isn't something I disagree with, and neither do most of the manufactures as far as I know...

Those browsers and other items electronically included in products like some of the branded names of product lines that are provided to the consumer with things that they have downloaded or perhaps even purchased, have features built into them that generate money to the business that provided the browser, storage, email whatever-in-the-clouds... and it is not provided to the customer with the primary reason to make the customer happy to keep their loyalty; they do it to increase their margin from the item in ways that may not be obvious to the consumer (which is borne out in a number of posts in this thread for example)...

Saying a car-maker should give away innovation and improvements because it will improve goodwill and customer loyalty are naive at best, about real world business... and believe me, car makers are ALL about making money... those that aren't, don't stay in business long if they get off the ground at all.

 

One of the things not mentioned here is that presently when software/firmware updates are offered for free, it's just a matter of putting out the word that it's available and the product owners install it themselves, or it's pushed to the device with no user intervention. Giving a firmware update for a car on the other hand would require a shop visit and for someone to connect to the CAN buss and do the upgrade. This person needs to be paid for their work, so the distribution is no longer a no cost action.

 

Great point tleon

 

Jeeeezzzz... still...

Post #36 Bra... he rocked it...


Coins drive the world's innovations... stop the coins... soon enough there is no innovation.

 

Who was talking about India, Uttar Pradesh, with 6 digit numeric postal code starting with 20-28?

You wrote Utar Pradesh, with 8 character alphanumeric postal code starting with AM, and having 18 digit SSN. That puts you no where near Earth. Our Internet doesn't yet reach your world, you must be tapping in through some bridge that we don't yet comprehend.