Serious Engine Knock less than 4000 miles brand new, done with Toyota

That's it! I'm not considering a new Prius or any other Toyota anymore!

 

In addition to what's already been written, you should be thankful that it happened so soon. If it's really *truly* a reliability problem, then your engine will die well before the 5 year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty expires. More likely, it's the problem that a number of people here have had where the engine has a rough start, often after it had been run only briefly (eg to move it from the road to the garage or something). And, to my knowledge, nobody has had any serious troubles from one of these yet. You'd be far more justified in your rant if it happened at 60,000 miles, right after the warranty expired, and then the engine died shortly afterwards.

Bottom line, report it to the dealer so they have a record of it happening and so they can check it out (even though the guy's explanation was probably just a fancy way of saying "I don't know, get off my back"), and then have yourself a drink and relax.

 

No, for him it will be the Leaf

When he switches, we should check out the Leaf board to see what he is complaining about it.

 

Why don't you fill it up with regular on the next tank and see what happens.
By the way, why are you using premium fuel?

 

This thread makes me smile

Only "knocking" I've had in my GenII is when it is really cold out (like < -15) and the car is first started. When idling at a light it tries to turn the engine off, then decides it's too cold and turns it back on, and then off, and then on, and so on. A quick hit of the EV button shuts it off, but it is annoying.

If you think Toyota quality is bad, I would hate to see you in a new domestic... yikes.

 

I agree completely...but its not an Audi...

LOL, we should warn them ahead of time...

Actually a lot of new domestic cars have very good quality, time will tell about reliability but so far domestic cars made in the last 3-4 years have been doing pretty well.

For instance, I think from an interior quality standpoint, quality of materials and fit and finish...the new Fords actually are better than the new Toyotas.

 

And how could using Premium cause a problem? It's all that's available here in Europe and we don't have problems and my understanding is that the engine is pretty much the same as yours in the US.

 

I think it's the reason for his knocking. Furthermore, octane is measured and recorded in the ECU. When the engine detonates within another 3k miles as it's likely to do, Toyota will be able to tell it used a non-recommended grade of fuel and reject the warranty claim. This will be recorded in Carfax. Furthermore, given how few junked Gen 3s there are he'll have to out of pocket buy his own new one, shipped overnight from Japan at a cost in the high single thousands. In a panic, he'll try to pull the plug on the whole thing. Skynet fights back. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia, knowing that the Russian counter-attack will eliminate its enemies over here.

 

op2:

 

LOL Skoorbmax. Premium fuel = world armageddon, that is the conclusion I sadly have come to myself.

Being serious for a moment, in case someone ever comes across this thread actually looking for something other that riotous laughter, I doubt that running the premium fuel caused his knocking, or is really doing anything harmful to the engine other than just wasting his money, and maybe contributing to a little more carbon buildup inside the combustion chamber.

Mostly its just a waste of money.

 

Petrol octane is measured differently in North America

87 octane petrol in the US and Canada is about the same as 92 in the EU

 

I would venture to say that what you are hearing is the normal noises the VVT-i system produce. Toyota's VVT-i system is very noisy, with a noise similar to the one made by engine knock. Normally, Toyota uses an engine cover to reduce valve-train noises. In the second gen Prius, Toyota didn't include this cover. In the third gen Prius the cover is more like a decorative trim piece.

 

Good point, I think what the OP experienced was the same thing quite a few of us have from time to time. It is discussed in several of the "Rough Engine Start" topics. It apparently has nothing to do with high octane fuel, I have used nothing but 87 octane regular and have had the problem several times as have others.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...troubleshooting/70128-rough-engine-start.html

 

Yep, that is the consensus on running premium on an engine speced to 87, like this one is.

 

I've had many Toyota products with VVT-i and can tell you, when the engine knocks...you know. Its unlikely that all of a sudden he hears something that scares the crap out of him one morning he's never heard before, and its anything that is always going on with the VVT-i system.

There's nothing about VVT-i that would generate any noise.

Much more likely its a fluke occurrence of knocking at startup similar to what others have experienced.

 

Conventional engines do not warm up at 4K rmp's. Max is usually 1500. My V8 Trans Am is about 1K.

FWIW about the knocking, I had complaints in my Chevy HHR of the same thing and it started at about 15K miles. I was assured by the dealer and GM it was getting oil and that the noise was the direct injection unit. As an ex-mechanic who has rebuilt engines ect, I didn't believe them. They put a sound dampener kit on my car and BINGO, the noise was barely audible. I swore it was no oil on startup but was wrong.

I know this isn't a chevy but there are many factors in knocking sounds.

 

I also have gotten the shake rattle and role!!!!!!! On 2 different occasions where the car started the following day on sudden dips of temperature ,,, but i just dont let it bother me yet as there are many of us that have this occur to our cars ... If anything it will be a mass recall.

 

I've driven my Prius for 10000 km now & I've never encountered any rough starting or loud knocking noises (touch wood). I drive exclusively in PWR mode accelerating pretty aggressively most the time. I still get around 53 mpg even in the colder temps nowadays due to the fact that I glide a lot after up to speed.

My point is: is it possible that if you "baby" the gas paddle in ECO mode all the time, there's not enough "flow" of gases through the cylinders to carry/blow away any unburnt carbon and they get deposited to the top of the cylinders. It's like you're idling the ICE all the time. When these deposits accumulate to a certain point the compression ratio in the cylinders become very high due to the fact that the deposits occupy space and reduce whatever space is left in the cylinders during the top dead centres of each compression stroke. This high compression ratio causes the loud knocking. Once the carbon deposits get knocked loose from the cylinders, they produce "white smoke" for a little while and then the ICE becomes normal again since the carbon deposits are gone.

I had these knocking experiences with my 15 years old (ex)Honda Civic, the last 2 years of it's life was pretty noisy-knocky. I had to FLOOR the gas once in a while to "blow" these deposits away to make the knocking more bearable.

mwok stated that he drives exclusively in ECO mode babying the gas paddle all the time. If my theory is correct, then he shouldn't blame Toyota, he should really "blame" himself cause this is an operational issue, not a design issue.

 

Bottom line to the OP?
You're not happy with the vehicle for several reasons. You've lost confidence in it and Toyota. Once that happens, it's really hard to regain. I would recommend just moving on....I just get the feeling there isn't anything that anyone could fix, tell you or adjust that would make you feel comfortable with your Prius. Once that happens, you might as well start mapping out your next purchase...and good luck.

 

Where is that placed?