Some of the commenters have asked what is the comparable cost of using existing roofs for the solar panels. Also what is the environmental impact. There is life in the desert. Perhaps some of you know. The United States approved on Monday a permit for the largest solar energy project in the world -- four massive plants at the cost of one billion dollars each in southern California. "The Blythe solar power plant will consist of four, 250-Megawatt plants, built on public lands in the sun-drenched Mojave desert," Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said. USA to Build the World's Largest Solar Power Plant
Certainly better to build a solar plant than to burn coal. But between putting the PVs on people's roofs and building a mega power plant, there's another big difference: With a mega plant you get to continue charging people for electricity. With PVs on peoples' roofs, they own the electricity they produce, and perhaps sell some of it back to the grid. Guess which is favored by the giant electric utility companies?
I think it's great! At mid-day, when it is 110 degrees, and we humans are desperate for a/c, is exactly when they are providing the most energy. Cool! I mean... hot!
The Blyth plant is solar thermal - to be built in 4 stages of ~250 MW for a total capacity of 1000 MW. It's the largest of 5 solar plants in California which have been recently approved: Beacon Solar Energy Energy Project: 250 MW solar thermal (trough) Abengoa Mojave Solar Project: 250 MW solar thermal (trough) (Solar Millennium) Blythe Solar Power Project: 4x 250 MW solar thermal (trough) Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System: 2x100 MW, 1x200MW solar thermal (heliostat mirror) That's a total of about 2GW of solar thermal that should be breaking ground before the end of the year. There's at least 2 more projects still waiting to be approved that would add another GW of solar thermal. This is on top of what will be 1.5 GW of wind power at the Alta Wind Energy Center.
Solar Millennium AG Is it too much to ask that American infrastructure be developed by AMERICANS and AMERICAN companies? Really? I'm serious.
ATM solar thermal is both more efficient and more dispatchable than PV. The ability to store excess heat in molten salts and then use that stored heat to create power when the sun isn't shiny is an advantage that PV can't really match right now. These plants can also be augmented with NG so that the production factor is higher, which can make them more attractive to investors. Now, I would be annoyed if these projects were PV because the roof top is a much better place PV. CSP really only makes sense at the utility scale.
Are you suggesting the 1000 construction workers and 300 permanent workers will be foreign? Because while the developer may be foreign, it appears that all the jobs created by it will be local, union labor. I'm just happy that the power generated by it will be renewable and supply power in part to my next vehicle - an electric so I can reduce my expenditures of foreign oil. BTW - it's not surprising that it's a German company - Germany has invested a LOT more than the US has into solar power. Perhaps when we do the same more local solar thermal companies will crop up but it currently can't be done without stable regulation.
I was thinking more along the lines of the tremendous amount of hard materials going into the project and all of the employment that those would bring- engineers, manufacturers, suppliers, etc.. A thousand or so laborers over a limited period of time and a few hundred permanent employees don't add up to anywhere near $1 billion. That's a lot of outflow of federal paper that would do much better completely spent here where it is needed. Same goes for Vestas. I just love watching all of those wind turbine parts unloaded from Chinese ships being driven up I45 here in Houston. Its like watching the future being unloaded ON us instead of BY us.
Vestas has 3 mfg plants in Colorado... Iowa has a number of plants too, but I don't know if Vestas has anything there. I would image that GE is make on quite a few of those TX turbines too. Not sure where they're made but I'd wager that TX has some mfg facilities or soon will.
All the best American engineering graduates, and the bulk of U.S. investment, goes to designing more and more sophisticated weaponry. We can kill more people, and do it in less time, and with fewer soldier/technicians operating them, than any other country in the world. Meanwhile, the Germans have been investing their engineering skill and their money in developing alternative energy technology, and the Japanese have been investing in developing better and cheaper consumer goods. The Chinese have been buying our debt because we are too consumption-obsessed to save our own money for such investment, and so the Chinese have us by the short hairs and we cannot do anything about their questionable trade policies. In short, our chickens have come home to roost: We are dependent on German energy technology, Japanese consumer goods, and Chinese credit. We've dug ourselves into a hole. The only way out is to pay off our debt by taxing ourselves; to reduce our consumption and increase our savings; and to stop spending half our federal budget on building a bigger military than the rest of the world combined. And Americans, driven by the politics of hate and demagoguery, are not willing to do any of the above. So yes, if we want energy in a post-peak-oil age, we'll have to pay the Germans to build it for us.
Funny thing about PV ... when temps get over 90 degrees, PV efficiency drops. 100+ and it's even worse. I've only found one company that retrofits thin water cooled elements that mount on the backside of PV panels. SDM100 Collector They're a double benefit ... the captured hot water saves energy, and cooler panels make more energy. I'm surprised this device is not more in use.
There is considerable discussion on the NAWS solar forum on this concept/product. It seems that the efficiency gains may not in most cases be worth the cost and head ache. You are right however that PV loses capacity as panel temp rises. That said, the inverse is also true. On a cold winter day(~-30), with lots of reflection off of the snow, I can sometimes come close to doubling my PV output (from STC).
doing my part in semi sunny Illinois, got a 2.7 kw 12 panel system on my roof for a year now. now just hoping can get more panels in the coming years to add on. ComEd is crazy high out here. was kinda hoping the plug in Prius was coming sooner, but then i read the all electric miles is only 14. so now trying to buy the 2010 with the great incentives here.
The effect of temperature on power output is basically linear. Typically for every degree C hotter the panels are, you lose about 0.5% power. For every degree C cooler the panels are, you pick up about 0.5% power. For this reason it's important to ensure that you have decent airflow under the panels - though the effects can often be mitigated by adding another panel or two if aesthetics are a concern.
