Glad I did not TDI

I read article saying that Diesel has reached its peak in terms of what can be done with technology. The technology has nowhere to go except to become hybrid. If diesel has a future it is as Diesel hybrid vehicles. In US combination of higher fuel costs plus lower economy means it really does not make sense to buy at TDI over a Prius for efficiency...That said I wish Toyota would open a German design center and import some of that VW feel to their steering/ride/and interior quality.

 

Diesel only makes sense in certain European countries where the fuel taxation is adjusted to make diesel cheaper than petrol.

In the US where I understand diesel costs more than petrol/gas, I cannot see any benefit to owning a diesel unless you own a trucking company and you can fill up for free or you brew your own biodiesel.

 

There is much fuel taxation in Europe that it would be easy to make Diesel competive with petrol just by playing a bit with numbers. $7.00 USD for petrol/ga is stunning for an American to think of and even more stunning when you consider half of that is tax.

On the other hand consumption has been deterred which is also of strategic importance..I just hope you think your government spent all those taxes well....

 

In Ontario disel is about 5 cent to 0 cheaper then reg gas
What the the difference in price where you live?

 

It is not the fuel taxation issue, it is a different car in Europe.

The 2010 Golf TDI in Europe gets 62MPG and 41MPG in the USA. This is because the European version has a 1.6L engine compared to a 1.9L in the USA. The biggest reason is the strict USA emissions standards.

 

The problem we have over here is people are still wary of Diesels. Back in the early eighties GM rushed the 5.7L diesel to market way before it was ready. That was probably the biggest flop any car maker has ever had with a diesel offering.

Other than the small numbers of Mercedes, Volvo and VWs on the road American dealers haven't had much luck selling diesels.

I would love to see the diesel offerings over in Europe on this side of the pond.

If I didn't own a hybrid I would be owning a diesel.

 

I do not care if it is gas, diesel, hybrid or electric. My goal is a decent car that gets great MPG’s. In the US the emission restrictions reduced the MPG’s on diesel enginees so much they are not competitive.

We have a car that is very close. With US the emission restrictions it only gets 41MPG.

 

At best the people behind you are probably thinking, oh great another Prius, I wonder how slow it will accelerate... better get around it.

Just about everyone I talk to about the Prius are dumbfounded to find out the engine shuts down at the light.

 

We don't have anything close to what is offered in Europe.

I would kill to score 1.4 to 1.6 TDI here in the states. Even with our emissions they would lose at most 5 mpg.

The argument isn't that they are better than a Prius but they are all better as far as fuel economy than any similar offering here in the U.S..

Look at the 2011 2.0L Ford Focus we are getting.
Sure 40 plus highway but they are not even talking about the city or combined mileage yet.

Problem is we're not getting these versions over here in the U.S.

 

When I was looking for my next car, Volkswagen Diesel Sportswagen and Golf were both vehicles I considered.

Honestly? I liked them. I thought they both respectively had excellent fit and finish. The Best.

For me two factors took them off my list...at the time availabilty was horrible. I actually had a volkswagen salesman recommend I go home and launch my own multi-state search...something I didn't feel motivated to do, and sort of thought that it was the Volkswagen salesmans job to try to do...but getting one would of been a struggle, never mind trying to get colors or options that I would want...Plus no mark downs or discounts given the rarity. Big strike against them.

#2. In general, while beloved by those that support them (much like Prius supporters) I seemed to uncover the reality that long term ownership meant a sacrifice into potentially higher maintenance. These TDI's did not come with the same reputation of reliabilty and low cost of ownership that Toyota's or Honda's offered.

So I never really got much off the ground.

But of all the options I looked at, I think the Golf TDI and Jetta Sportwagen were the nicest looking, while offering perhaps the greatest combination of performance and efficiency, outside of the Hybrid market.

Had availability not been such an issue, I might be driving one today. But it's a real red flag when the Volkswagen salesman at an auto show acts like getting you a GOLF TDI would be akin to arranging a trip to the moon.

 

The Electric Me, pretty much the same reasons that I crossed the TDI off my list last summer when I was looking for a new car. My local dealer was a real pain to deal with so I figured their service department had the same attitude.

 

I have considered a TDI until I visited the TDI forum and found a long discussion about high pressure fuel pump failures. These can cost more than $5,000 to fix and it's not clear cut that VW will accept responsibility in every case, although sometimes they do. NHTSA has begun an investigation on the new model Jetta TDI and the same motor is used in the other VW cars. Plus the TDI uses a belt drive cam so eventually you'll face a non-warranty timing belt job, which can be in the $800 range. I decided the TDI isn't for me until they get to the bottom of the fuel pump issue.

 

I'm not trying to rubbish diesel cars. Modern diesel cars are nothing like the diesels you may remember from the early 1980's. I've owned and driven many modern diesels and they're a good drive - loads, and I mean loads of torque and they're great fun.

But with all the emissions requirements and the higher cost of fuel and higher purchase price and the reliability factor they're not worth it financially compared to a hybrid or even an economical petrol car. Even over here where fuel costs more than double what you pay, a diesel car is only just viable in certain circumstances. For you in the US you'd have to do a lot of highway miles to make any savings to balance the compromises of owning a diesel. Maybe in Canada where diesel is cheaper than petrol/gas, but then you'll have cold start issues.

Personally I think diesel has had its day (for cars) and can only just meet the US emission requirements now and probably unlikely to do so in the near future. You don't have the existing diesel infastructure like we do in Europe where every fuel pump has a petrol or diesel option with stand alone diesel pumps for trucks. In Europe it will continue in countries that keep the price artificially low, otherwise it will will lose ground to the lower emission hybrids and plugin vehicles. This is already starting to happen in countries that have concerns over local air pollution.

Diesel is so last century!

 

Well I can assure you they haven't and it isn't just a VW problem. It appears to be a part that fails regularly in all modern diesels due to the massive pressures it operates under.

Search my previous posts about diesel and you will see many warnings about high pressure diesel pumps, diesel particle filters, dual mass flywheels, auto boxes burnt out prematurely due to stresses caused by the high torque of diesel engines, cracked exhaust flex pipes.... the list could go on. The myth about diesel engines being simpler belongs in the 1970's when they were. I can assure you it is no longer the case as can other European forum members who have many years experience of modern diesel cars (that guy from Portugal for one).

The beauty of the Toyota HSD system is the simplicity - there is less to go wrong.

 

Besides the mpg difference, the cost of diesel is always higher than regular gas in the Winter months. I never knew this, but a guy at work drives a diesel, and he mentioned once the temps get cold, and there is demand for heating oil, the price of diesel goes up by a lot.

 

American fuel is right on the limit for what Bosch deems acceptable for the high pressure fuel pump. If I were fueling in the USA, I would always add a lubricity additive or a bit of biodiesel to try to bring things into a more comfortable range. Sure the pump may run well for now, but after 100-200k miles operating with borderline fuel, will it be the same? I wouldn't want to take that chance.

 

I wish we (Americans) had more diesel options for cars. Look at full size trucks, find ANYONE that "wants" a gas engine in a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. They all want a diesel. We just dont have the options for good diesels in cars. The TDI is great, but VW is lousy to deal with. If Ford brought over its diesels or more low end BMWs were diesel, it would be different.

I drive my Prius as a daily driver and love it but I also have two diesels (2002 Ford Powerstroke and a Suzuki Samurai I converted to a 1.6NA VW diesel) that I love for what they are. If the VW TDI sportswagen wasnt a VW and it was the same price as a prius, I would have purchased the TDI. Low end torque is great and I could tow more with the TDI.

 

That's right : Belgium, France are 2 examples.

 

I had a 2002 Golf TDI 5 speed and got a very consistant 40mpg town driving and 50mpg on the highway. once with a 10mph tail wind, driving 65 I got 62mpg. it had strong acceleration, not a kick in the pants but strong at all speeds. it was also very quiet on the highway.

I traded the Golf for a 07 LaCrosse CSX (family issue) and traded that in for the Prius