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Emission Comparison: Prius / HS250h / Insight / Civic Hybrid / Jetta (Gas+TDI) / WRX STI

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by usbseawolf2000, Jul 1, 2009.

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  1. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    #41 SageBrush, Oct 20, 2010
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Here is the comparison of the PHV Prius and the Volt.

    Carbon Monoxide:
    Volt PHV Prius.png

    Exhaust Emission:
    Volt PHV Prius Exhaust.png

    Evaporative Emission:
    Volt PHV Prius Evap.png
     
    #42 usbseawolf2000, Oct 20, 2010
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nice! Bars though don't tell the whole story:
     

    Attached Files:

    #43 SageBrush, Oct 20, 2010
  4. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That multiplier tells another story. Even if PHV Prius drove with the gas engine for 150,000 miles, the CO and NOx emission would still be the same or less than Volt driven for 7,500 miles in CS mode.
     
    #44 usbseawolf2000, Oct 21, 2010
  5. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    To keep this more Toyota Relevant, is there any difference between the 2010 Prius and the PHV?
     
    #45 HTMLSpinnr, Oct 21, 2010
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    PHV Prius' exhaust emission is slightly worse but the evaporative emission is better.

    This is very good for a plugin considering the emission of the aftermarket plugin conversions.

    Exhaust Emission:
    2010 Prius vs PHV.png

    Evaporative Emission:
    2010 Prius vs PHV Evap.png
     
    #46 usbseawolf2000, Oct 21, 2010
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When I see the same engine go through the same test and different results, I begin to wonder about the reproducibility of the test. Given the very low values, nearly to the scale limits, it is easy to look at the relative values and infer a pattern that may be due to a sampling error. In engineering, we have to be very careful when looking at the limits of instrumentation.

    It would help to review their test protocol looking for: (1) sample set, how many different cars are tested; (2) temperature protocol or how the test vehicles are handled during the test, and; (3) calibration protocol for the instrumentation. There are so many ways when dealing at the limits of detection that a review makes sense.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #47 bwilson4web, Oct 22, 2010
  8. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    CARB and EPA use the same test protocol, I believe - only the thresholds are slightly different, in that CARB SULEV II CO emissions must be less than Federal Tier 2 Bin 2 (1.0 grams per mile versus 2.1 g/mi). The manufacturer does the test on one example and submits the results. In theory the test results could be audited and the company fined if they are found to be fraudulent, i.e. independent testing results are outside the reasonable distribution that you might expect.

    Emission Standards: USA: Cars and Light-Duty Trucks - Tier 2
    Emission Standards: USA: Cars and Light-Duty Trucks - California

    I suspect that as Toyota know the Prius is going to beat the standards by a very long way, that they just run it for best fuel economy and let the emissions take care of themselves. They're not trying to optimize the test result for least emissions to just squeeze into the lowest category.
     
    #48 Mike Dimmick, Oct 25, 2010
  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    2011 Sonata Hybrid got SULEV rating. Great job, Hyundai!

    See below for the comparison between the midsize hybrids. Prius is still the king.

    2011 Sonata Hybrid.png

    Source
     
    #49 usbseawolf2000, Jan 5, 2011
  10. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Ok, time for the entire Prius family. Generally, there is an overall improvement in the production version of Prius PHV.

    Prius Family Exhaust Emission

    Prius Family.png

    Prius Family Evaporative Emission

    Prius Family Evap.png
     
    #50 usbseawolf2000, Feb 9, 2012
    2 people like this.
  11. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Here is the comparison of 2012 Volt that would only be sold in California (for HOV lane access) versus the standard model that would be sold outside California.

    2012 Volt ULEV vs. SULEV (Exhaust Emission)

    2012 Volt CA-Non-CA (Exhaust).png

    2012 Volt ULEV vs. SULEV (Evaporative Emission)

    2012 Volt CA-Non-CA (Evap).png
     
    #51 usbseawolf2000, Feb 9, 2012
  12. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    A comparison of three available plugin hybrids, namely Prius PHV, Volt and Fisker Karma.

    Out of these 3 "green" cars, Prius PHV gets 1/3 the tax credit ($2,500 vs. $7,500) as Volt and Karma. Prius PHV is rated 50 MPG when the plug battery power runs out. Volt is rated 37 MPG and Karma 20 MPG. :mad:

    Exhaust Emission

    2012 Plugin Hybrid (Exhaust).png

    Evaporative Emission

    2012 Plugin Hybrid (Evap).png
     
    #52 usbseawolf2000, Feb 9, 2012
  13. hlunde

    hlunde Member

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    Great effort and great data! Only surprise to me is that TDI CO levels aren't lower given the high percentage of theoretical air used in diesel combustion. And of course "clean diesel" only means much cleaner than conventional diesel.
     
    #53 hlunde, Feb 10, 2012
  14. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    i am not a diesel fan but i have to say these are compared to a 2009 TDI? from 2009 to now things did change? or not... higher gear ratio? add-bleu?

    i think even then you will see a "clean" diesel is not way as clean

    its funny to see that the volt is wors then the phv prius.
     
    #54 Flying White Dutchman, Feb 10, 2012
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    I fixed the posts with broken charts, happened when the server upgraded software.
     
    #55 usbseawolf2000, Oct 15, 2012
  16. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Resurrecting this 6 years old thread, due to the recent VW Diesel-gate and a few (@godzillaismad) asking for more details.

    The NOx limit (STD) is 0.05 grams per mile. Jetta TDI actually got the same as a gas Civic, 0.04. Now we know, the real world emission could be 40x higher than the limit. This means up to 2 grams per mile, off the chart.

    Link to the CARB certification.

    [​IMG]
     
    #56 usbseawolf2000, Sep 25, 2015
  17. Munpot42

    Munpot42 Senior Member

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    Now with the revelations of the VW cheating scandal my guess is that the TDI numbers are all bogus........
     
    #57 Munpot42, Sep 25, 2015
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