Well after nearly two years and only 15 billion dollars, your tax dollars, the Chevrolet Volt is soon to arrive, well I thought. Here in Warrenton Oregon I was told at the Chevy dealer, not here. I was told there are no charging stations. What???? A mile down the road at the Toyota Dealer there are 12 new 2010 Prius priced at $41.00 Below Dealer Invoice. ( 41 year anniversary sale,Lums Toyota) For about half the price of the Volt I can buy a Prius and get this, Toyota had no bail out money. Another important mpg item. If you drive say 300 miles in the Volt without charging at a electric charging station you will get about 32 MPG, the Prius will get a minimum of 45 mpg for half the price. Just my thoughts alfon
Chevy will only built 5000 Volts for 2011, (about a 2 week supply of Prius) so do not expect them everywhere. The Prius is much more a 'production' vehicle, the Leaf and the Volt will be 'bait and switch' vehicles in 2011, produced in sample quantities. 2012 will be more interesting, when volumes ramp up and Toyota starts sampling plug in's.
I just don't think the Volt in its present form is going to be financialy viable from a stock holder's standpoint, maybe from a politicans view at best. It just seems that Toyota and Nissan are several car lengths ahead with a tailwind and GM is struggling in 1st gear with a headwind trying to keep up. alfon
Also the new revelations that the Chevy "Voltec" drive is similar in many ways to the Prius's innovative drive train, using a planetary gear arrangement that can couple the engine mechanically to the wheels. This makes it a hybrid, according to all definitions I have read, rather than an "extended range electric" they have previously called it. The implication for this is that they may have their gas mileage measured the same way as the Prius's, which won't do the Volt any favors. Mike
It is wrong to compare a Volt and a Prius. The Volt is actually a plugin-hybrid with extended EV range and should be compared to the forthcoming Prius PHEV.
Whatever they want to call it, it's a plug-in hybrid. They will beat Toyota to market with a plug-in, and deserve the kudos accordingly. People who actually plug it in and commute 15 miles to work (with no, or very little ICE help) will get great gas mileage, and like it. There will be stories in the press about people who have a Leaf and head out with 100+ miles of range showing and get stranded at 50 miles because they climbed a hill, or ran the AC, or listened to the radio (like the Tesla articles). The "range anxiety" GM marketing campaign will be somewhat successful. If you're going to range-extend a battery car, direct-drive is better than going via a generator through the motor(s). This isn't giving in, it's the right answer from an engineering standpoint. The volt is everything we have been saying we want in a Prius...can plug it in, can operate normally (not weakly) on batteries only with no ICE, can run on ICE via a direct drive setup when the battery is flat. This is exactly what the best Prius aftermarket kits enable. It doesn't have all the 9/10's aero and ultra efficiency tidbits of the Prius, so it won't get 50 MPG on the ICE alone, but it will do well if people use the batteries, and will do well enough on ICE only. Why all the GM bashing? If nothing else it'll push Toyota to catch up on plug-in hybrids.
Chevy Volt vs. Prius PHV - Prius PHV - even me, a common Joe got to drive the Prius PHV, for free last weekend, 2 years before its release. Chevy Volt - I bet it will be pretty darn difficult to get your hands on one of these to test drive after it is released for sale. Maybe not. BTW, where did the OP's 32 MPG 'hybrid' mode figure come from for the Volt?
Over Promise, Under Deliver - their own goals were not met Too Little, Too Slowly - the concern expressed by the auto task-force prior to the bankruptcy is indeed proving to be the case Isn't the point of Volt to replace traditional production? The price is far out of the reach of the mainstream. The efficiency of the engine isn't any better than a traditional vehicle, neither are its emissions. Also, you must have an outlet available, leaving those without nothing available to purchase other than a traditional vehicle. .
Nope, I don't want econobox non-hybrid MPG. I don't want 3,800 lbs so called green car that seats only four. I don't want to pay $41k for a compact car. I don't want to downgrade emission level below AT-PZEV. I don't want Frankenstein Prius with 3 clutches.
The 32 MPG for the VOLT is when the gasoline motor kicks in, these figures I had found on the internet on various sites you can google. Some people, like us in Seaside, Oregon, are about 80 miles one way from Portland. It is all mountains going there via Highway 26 the Sunset Highway. In the winter I bet after 25 miles you will be out of juice as you go from 0 feet (sea level ) to over 1600 feet, and its raining, with a 1/2 inch of standing roadway water, dark, with headlights on, and the temp is 40 degrees. The Prius takes that winter rip at 45 MPG for a round trip. The Volt, probably, not so much. Alfon
You beat me to it. I was planning on doing a poll to provide some metrics in the Prius vs Volt discussions. I'll just wait until 11/10/2010 when the Volt is supposed to go into production. I have some neat ideas for graphs to compare Volt, Prius PHEV and Prius performance to kick off the poll. But I'd rather wait until someone actually tests a production Volt and we see the real window sticker. Bob Wilson
Besides the other points already mentioned, here are some others: decades of mismanagement and denial that forced them into bankruptcy and a $50 billion bailout from the government (which hasn't even come close to even being repaid) being in denial about hybrids until it was too late (while pushing monstrosity class SUVs). They were in denial about hybrids w/public statements as late as 2004 from Lutz whereas Toyota had the foresight to develop the Prius, which started shipping in Japan in 12/97. Putting out too little, too late efforts like the BAS hybrids that sold in tiny numbers (and had terrible reliability too), were not clean and then monstrosity expensive $50K+ ~20 mpg two-mode hybrid full-sized SUVs. killing the EV1 and throwing away their leadership position. They could've been much better positioned in EVs and hybrids, if they hadn't. being responsible for so many of the monstrosity-class (full-sized) SUVs on the road greenwashing w/the above BAS hybrids and "Live Green, Go Yellow" flex-fuel E85 scam that let them produce even worse guzzlers due to the E85 sca... err incentive. It let a "21 mpg" for CAFE purposes Tahoe be rated at an inflated "35 mpg" when it got 14 mpg in Consumer Reports testing on gas and 10 mpg on E85. poor long-term reliability. It's still true to this day. They still put out a ton of vehicles that have below average long term reliability and thus far inferior to Toyota and Honda. My parents and I have experienced this w/3 GM products in the past. You should listen to NUMMI | This American Life (although the download is no longer free, it looks like you can listen to the whole thing for free, online). http://priuschat.com/forums/other-cars/78530-great-story-nummi-nprs-american-life.html#post1097941 was my commentary on it. It was very insightful.
For example: http://priuschat.com/forums/chevrolet-volt/82503-gm-volt-what-they-hiding.html#post1194516 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...-the-secret-to-getting-127-mpg-in-chevy-volt/ - shows they got 35.8 mpg
Big Bob (Lutz) has never been a believer in either EV or hybrid vehicles. After all, big Bob is the one who told us what Americans really want - "big vehicles with lots of HP". Google it, and you will find his quote. Sad. IMO, the high price for the Volt all but insures it's failure, or at best, very limited success. When people don't buy, big Bob will look like a genius, and GM's board will believe he really does know what Americans want.
That NUMMI story on This American Life was one of the most insightful shows I've ever heard. Its from GM's mouth that they were too prideful to really learn anything from the free lessons Toyota gave them at that plant
And how about that Volt styling...is the thick heavy black window sill supposed to make a blocky last gen Malibu body shape somehow futuristic? As several other Hybrid automakers have learned the hard way...people wanting to "Drive the Future" want their vehicles to look "futuristic"...The Prius does that for me.
good for GM for trying this idea... i'll give them that... but that's about it. prius vs volt everyone tends to forget that our standard is the ICE... so it should be looked at from an ICE "going to" EV point of view. in that point of view, the prius ICE gets 45+mpg while the volt gets 30's... someone did the math.. and it basically said that the volt gets prius distance on the $$$ while running with heavy electrical use... long distance =prius 45-100+mpg (plug-in averaging 65+mpg) =volt 30's short distance =1 U.S. Dollar takes you 15 to 20+ miles in a prius ( =electricity in the volt will take you about 15 miles per U.S. Dollar. (according to another reader's math)... ICE use gets you only 11 or so miles. i read that another tester said it cost roughly 200 watt hours per mile..... roughly 4 cents per mile at 20 cents per kwh... that would make the volt more efficient. getting you 25 miles or so per dollar with electricity. so.. it all Really depends on often you go long distance and if you have a plug to utilize for short distances. it's also smaller and cost about twice the price of a prius. usually things smaller than a prius with similar acceleration get better mpg (the old insight did anyways... ) it also only seats 4...
