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Motor Trend first drive of the Volt

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by adrianblack, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    2011 Chevrolet Volt First Test - Motor Trend

    Interesting info here though still no mileage test numbers. They do talk about the reduced speed mode which happened when driving around in "sport" mode up in Angeles Crest... and that wheel HP is pretty good and goes up when the ICE is running.
     
    #1 adrianblack, Oct 11, 2010
  2. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Here are some nonsense numbers posted by MT. I have no idea why they published this rubbbish, the numbers do not make any sense whatsoever.

    127 MPG: This Volt Story Must Be Told | Car News Blog at Motor Trend

    ...Annnnd, then we see why:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/motor-trend-reveals-the-secret-to-getting-127-mpg-in-chevy-volt/

    So according to them it gets 36 miles to gallon when the batteries are discharged. I still believe this car runs on premium. Some of these numbers are now starting to become consistent; the thing just gets in the 30's basically when not running in EV mode.

    I think you'll find that with a reasonable mix of gas driving even if you charge each night and consider the cost of electricity the overall "mpg" insofar as your wallet is hit is not going to be vastly better than a Prius; you really have to do all you can to avoid using actual gasoline if you want to reap real benefits in operating cost.
     
    #2 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  3. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    What's the issue with the car running on premium?

    OK it'll cost you $1 more to fill the tank on a car which will be running on electric most of the time. You might have to fill it up once a week, maybe twice a month or even once a month. So the downside of running on premium on a $40,000 car is it will cost $4 a month more to fill!

    I don't see a problem there.
     
    #3 GrumpyCabbie, Oct 14, 2010
  4. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    One just needs to remember to calculate it. So if a volt gets 36 mpg on gas with premium it's the same cost as 33.5 mpg on 87. Makes it look appreciably worse (which is true, it is).
     
    #4 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    And a drop in the ocean for a $40k car.
     
    #5 GrumpyCabbie, Oct 14, 2010
  6. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Well it's really a $35k/car but a key selling point of this vehicle is its energy use. That is entirely what the car is all about, everything else is noise.

    EDIT: I suppose technical premium and 87 use same energy. So maybe instead of energy use I should use energy cost ;)
     
    #6 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  7. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Prius and PHV Prius run on regular. Even the Chevy Cruze that the Volt is based on (has the same 1.4 liter engine), runs on regular and get 40 MPG highway.
     
    #7 usbseawolf2000, Oct 14, 2010
  8. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I know the numbers are prelim still but is it conceivable that the Cruze could actually beat the Volt on the highway due to the Volt's energy loss from conversion to electric? I think it's quite possible.
     
    #8 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    No idea. I can understand if the car gets poor mileage because the cost difference adds up but people over here made a HUGE deal (and huge is an understatement) about the fact that the smart uses premium fuel and that somehow, it's a HUGE issue for a car that small and with that little horsepower.

    If people actually did the calculations, it costs the same (at least in my area) as a Yaris to fill up (assuming equal distance travelled using the city rating which is what I go by in my area since we don't have a lot of highways). This means it should be better on the highway since its highway rating is quite a bit better than the Yaris.

    But somehow.. 91 (95 RON) is the devil.
     
    #9 Tideland Prius, Oct 14, 2010
  10. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Wow. I HATE the Smart. I really hate that thing. I didn't even know it required premium, now I really hate it.

    There is just no excuse to ask for premium in a run of the mill non performance car. It shows lazy engineering. Typically a car will require it when it's ahead of the curve performance wise, but something that can't even beat a minivan in a drag race shouldn't require premium.
    That's not so good. The Yaris is half the price!
     
    #10 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  11. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    Why is premium so unloved?

    You can't get anything lower over here in Europe. It's Premium (95 ron) or Super (98 ron).
     
    #11 GrumpyCabbie, Oct 14, 2010
  12. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    In fact the vehicle by size and configuration is essentially a Corolla / Cruze / Civic / Focus with a 300+ lb battery giving it a 40 mile gas-free range. When the battery runs down it's simply a Corolla / Cruze / Civic / Focus with a 300+ lb anchor getting mid-30's mpg fuel economy ( 2.75 gpc fuel usage ). It only has room for 4 bodies whereas the other 4 have room for 5 bodies.

    $41000 vs $18000.....
     
    #12 DeadPhish, Oct 14, 2010
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  13. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    We can't really compare the Volt's price to a compact fuel efficient car as they have different goals. It's the same argument people use against the Prius. If I wanted to save money overall I would have bought a used Honda Civic HF from the mid 90's. But I wanted a car that was extremely low emission, comfortable, practical and safe. I got that with my Prius....

    I am disappointed the Volt uses Premium gas (seems like a cop-out to eeek slightly more power from the engine) and that it's charge sustaining mode is so inefficient, but in the right circumstances it's a pretty great car. Like an electric car around town but with the abilities to take long trips. You can finally have a near EV car that you can take on road trips.

    Personally I think the Prius is a better package and I wish Toyota upped the battery capacity on the plug in Prius to be more similar to the Volt. Then you get great EV capability and amazing highway mileage as well.
     
    #13 adrianblack, Oct 14, 2010
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  14. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Premium is unloved because it's expensive. The rule of thumb is there is low, mid, premium. Each grade is about a dime more expensive than the one before it--when gas costs $2 this is the case; when it costs $4 it's the case. In Europe gasoline costs about a first born per litre so the price premium is comparatively a smaller piece of the price (though in absolute terms I expect it's similar) :)
    I have in the past but I would say only this year does a Prius finally break even on cost because Toyota is giving them away. Before they were just an expensive gadget. Which is what the Volt will be. The argument for a Leaf is more compelling in my estimation; I think it's only a slightly expensive toy, but I cannot imagine any math that has a Volt not substantially more expensive.

    I read yesterday briefly about Nissan offering discounted rentals or something to Leaf owners to assuage "range anxiety".

    I won't deny the Volt has a potential sweet depending on one's needs.
     
    #14 Skoorbmax, Oct 14, 2010
  15. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    Toyota can now make the Prius pretty cheaply and it's "grown up" so it's a competitive vehicle to non hybrids in its price range ... But you need to have high prices and early adopters to get to that point.

    If GM does the right thing in 10-15 years cars like the volt will be common and competitive.... And you'll be able to plug in at work doubling your effective commute range.

    I dream of the day when all vehicles are hybrids, electric or fuel cell ... you could walk down the street in a busy city and hear so little noise and smell fresh air.
     
    #15 adrianblack, Oct 14, 2010
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  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    You just proved my point lol.

    A MINI requires premium too for its 116hp, 1.6 litre engine. Are you going to hate on it too?

    Now I'm not saying MB has an excuse (esp. if Mitsubishi uses the same motor and it only requires regular) but I can see the case for the MINI. It helps eek out a little more performance in the small engine.

    I must say, the smart is NOTHING like the Yaris. I love Toyota. We've had Toyotas and only Toyotas in our family but the Yaris is designed for one purpose - cheap transportation. It's a fuel miser, it's cheap to buy and the exterior and interior shows (where's the underbody chip protection? The plastics feel cheaper than those on the Tercel). You sit higher up on the smart (you sit ABOVE the wheels) and the interior, though filled with recycled materials, feels nicer and there's plenty of premium features to justify the price.

    Oh and it seems American equate size with EVERYTHING... fuel cost, luxury, fuel consumption, status etc etc.

    i.e. the smaller the car, the cheaper it must be, the better the mpg and the lower the status of the driver behind it.

    And the American public wonders why Europeans love their small cars... I guess they must be all poor.
     
    #16 Tideland Prius, Oct 14, 2010
  17. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Because of the price "premium" on premium. We are cost sensitive. The price you pay for "petrol" is scary.

    The ONLY car I have ever owned that required high octane fuel was my 1963 Triumph TR4 and that was due to milling the head for better performance (I was still a kid then). I will no longer buy ANY car that requires premium fuel.

    JeffD
     
    #17 jdenenberg, Oct 14, 2010
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  18. adrianblack

    adrianblack Member

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    I had a Yaris 5-door rental and I must admit, even though it's bargain basement transportation, it was a decent little car. Had it for a week and drove all over Ontario in it. I found it had enough power to zip around, got great mileage, had great visibility, had decent ride. Even as an abused rental car, it was solid without rattles. (More than I can say for my Prius.) A lot better than the Tercels I had driven in the past.... (A couple generations old.)

    The problem with the Smart in the US is you do not get much benefit to having it over another small car like the Mini or Yaris 3-door. You don't get the perpendicular parking benefits or tax breaks.
     
    #18 adrianblack, Oct 14, 2010
  19. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The question could be reversed: Why does Europe need higher octane ratings?

    They aren't as much higher as you might think, since the U.S. uses a different octane rating system. European 95 is about the same as U.S. 91.

    Tom
     
    #19 qbee42, Oct 14, 2010
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  20. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Fair enough. I've had Yarises as rentals and courtesy cars before (not sure why I've somehow managed so many days with it) and yeah, it was on my short list to purchase.

    All 3 that you mentioned were available for tax rebates back in 2008 in Canada. The MINI and Yaris qualified for the $1,000 fed tax rebate and the smart qualified for $2,000 (the only non-hybrid to do so). Each of them also had a prov. rebate of *up to* $2,000 (so basically, no provincial tax on any of them since they're all below $2k... it's moreso for the Prius and other expensive hybrids). I'm already $1k ahead in rebates with the smart which brings it on par with the Yaris 5-dr LE Auto that I was considering.

    It also helped with parking since we had 1 underground stall and the smart allowed my roommate and I to share a spot without having to purchase a 2nd stall.
     
    #20 Tideland Prius, Oct 15, 2010
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