Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2011.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Rybold, Jul 2, 2010.

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  1. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid is really a hybrid hybrid -- The Prius is a dedicated hybrid (no regular gas version). Ford has the strategy of one model, available in either gasoline or hybrid form (Ford Focus, for example). But Hyundai decided to make a hybrid of the two strategies. They will take the Sonata platform and keep most of the car the same, but they will change enough of it that it will be a hybrid of the two strategies.

    Act fast to get a Sonata Hybrid for less than a Prius, limited-time offer — Autoblog Green

    Hyundai powers up its hybrid strategy - Business - Autos - The Driver's Seat - msnbc.com

    Hyundai announces: Hyundai plans to have dedicated hybrids

    Hyundai powers up its hybrid strategy - Business - Autos - The Driver's Seat - msnbc.com

    [​IMG]
    NEW YORK AUTO SHOW - 2011 HYUNDAI SONATA HYBRID http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38020882/ns/business-autos/

    UPDATE: CONFIRMED ON HYUNDAI'S WEBSITE THAT THE SONATA HYBRID WILL BE "in Hyundai showrooms later this year." http://www.hyundaiusa.com/about-hyundai/news/YF_hybrid_2011MY_release-20100331.aspx

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    #1 Rybold, Jul 2, 2010
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Please... NiMH is the only proven (most economical) battery for hybrid. Going by their logic, lithium-polymer is an interim technology until lithium-air battery.

    Hyundai Blue Drive (HBD) seem to be better than Honda's IMA because it has two motors. Although the second motor is anemic, it does a good enough job. Hyundai is focusing on the highway MPG because their city MPG sux. HBD wastes more energy in the city than having it to push through air at high speed. That tells how bad or little HBD recaptures the energy from braking (or ICE inefficiency at low load).
     
    #2 usbseawolf2000, Jul 2, 2010
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Six months from launch, but no MPG figures ? Color me unimpressed.

    As for using Li-x rather than NiMH, the space savings is too small to be the real reason, and the small capacity makes the higher power rating mostly mute. I'm more inclined to believe that Hyundai did not have much choice, because Toyota has dibbs on most of the NiMH battery production, with the sliver left over going to Ford. Perhaps Li-x also helps Hyundai circumvent Toyota patents?

    Hyundai has proved itself capable of playing a fast game of catch-up, and I'll be surprised if their hybrid cars do not follow the same path. But purchase a 1st gen offering ? Not me. I also wonder if Hyundai is not hurrying the cars to market in order to catch the remaining months of the US hybrid credit before it sunsets in Dec 2010.
     
    #3 SageBrush, Jul 2, 2010
  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Well I've been interested in Hyundais Hybrid offering. Seems like it has taken them long enough.

    It will be interesting to see 2 things. First of all, if the product sells well at all. Secondly, how supportive Hyundai is of the product. I admit, I like the looks of the Hyundai Sonata...hope they don't change the looks too much for the Hybrid.

    Toyota has a real advantage. Having the history they have with the Prius, gives them instant legitimacy in PHEV or Hybrid marketing. Hyundai will have to earn that.

    I'm interested in what the MPG's will be as well. I wonder if any other major mainstream automaker will ever offer a hybrid that comes close to Prius MPG. Seems odd that Honda, Hyundai don't even seem to try.

    I think Toyota has been smart. There are numerous reasons people desire to own a Hybrid, so I don't mean this as a blanket statement, but I think Toyota rightly knows that there is an ideal ecological, social, enviromental and sometimes political reasons people look to hybrids (soon PHEV and full electrics) but beyond that idealism, I think Toyota also realizes that MPG's are important. Witness Toyota's determination to be first to the 50 mpg rating.

    Meanwhile it seems like everyone else is happy with an improvement, but they don't even seem to be trying to catch Toyota in that regard.

    IMO, after over a decade there is still no real, tangible direct competitor to The Prius, and given Prius's success? I find that strange.
     
    #4 The Electric Me, Jul 2, 2010
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Toyota has about a gazillion patents, many of them related to software control of the drivetrain. It is not by chance that the "1% left" in Volt R&D is just that area. In fact, this was the obstacle that Ford could not independently overcome and forced them to license Toyota THS.

    Between it being a really hard technical challenge, and Toyota's IP, I am not surprised at all that no real competition has surfaced.
     
    #5 SageBrush, Jul 2, 2010
  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    True. I agree. But I'm still suprised that "better" competition hasn't manifested.
     
    #6 The Electric Me, Jul 2, 2010
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    should be good. The new Sonata is very striking and Hyundai is basically going to do what Toyota did to Mercedes with Lexus. Enter a market with established players (yes the Prius has only been around for 13 years but in the relative scheme of things, it has a history and is the icon).
     
    #7 Tideland Prius, Jul 2, 2010
  8. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Consumer reports just posted a new article on the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid, with new details and numbers.

    Consumer Reports Cars Blog: 2011 Hyundai Sonata hybrid - Details revealed on the upcoming Blue Drive sedan

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    #8 Rybold, Oct 7, 2010
  9. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Korean technology is as good or better than Japanese. Samsung, for example, now makes the best LCD TVs. Hyundai has excellent technical leadership--engineers, not marketing types-- and is competitive as well. We'll see how their hybrids stack up vs Toyota and Honda.
     
    #9 PriusSport, Oct 7, 2010
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    yawn.
     
    #10 bisco, Oct 7, 2010
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    I will not be purchasing one yet I am still excited about it. I tell everyone that is looking for a fuel efficient sedan to keep an eye on this car. :)
     
    #11 F8L, Oct 7, 2010
  12. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    .
    I took some photos at the OC AutoShow October 9, 2010 ... Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

    In dealers January 2011, according to Hyundai AutoShow employees.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    #12 Rybold, Oct 11, 2010
  13. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Saw an ad for it already in Canada.... Aside from the Volt, advertising a car before launch doesn't happen very often in Canada. The ads usually go on air the day it hits the showroom.
     
    #13 Tideland Prius, Oct 12, 2010
  14. 13Plug

    13Plug Active Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    I like the Sonata hybrid. The car has so much style compared to the bland Prius. But for me I still want the great MPG numbers... Now that I've had a Prius I don't know that I could replace it with something getting even 10 mpg less....

    Nice car though, if there was no Prius I would buy a Sonata Hybrid.
     
    #14 13Plug, Oct 12, 2010
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  15. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    By bringing up the styling/shape versus the Prius, you caused me to take a closer look at the Sonata hybrid images. The Sonata is actually pretty good looking on aerodynamics - and it gets 40mpg highway. With the Ford Fusion and Fiesta, the Civic hybrid, and the Sonata, it's showing that although the Prius still has the lead at 50mpg, conventionally-shaped cars with hybrid drivetrains can get into the 40s on mpg. Could Toyota be missing a huge opportunity by not also offering the HSD in the Yaris, Corolla, Martix, and all of the Scions right now? Hmmm. I'm sure Toyota could be selling a lot of those.
     
    #15 Rybold, Oct 14, 2010
  16. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    The sonata hybrid has a cd of .25, the same as the prius. I like the looks of it other than the grill.

    The sonata/infiniti/bmw approach to hybridization can easily drop a hybrid into their other cars. Toyota not so much. Toyota seems to be making a hybrid yaris and matrix in the rumored cars. I'm not sure how much more they can do without reducing costs of their hybrid system.
     
    #16 austingreen, Oct 14, 2010
  17. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    remember the combined MPG for these cars falls WAY short of the Prius...38 and lower is NOT 50. just crowing about the highest number (highway for most other cars and hybrids) is not apples to apples. and a 13 year head start with proven HSD tech figures in the equation. Sales numbers don't lie about proven high MPG/low emissions.
     
    #17 finman, Oct 14, 2010
  18. jburns

    jburns Senior Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    Way short might be a bit strong. When you get up in the higher MPGs, differences in fuel usage are not a big as the numbers make them seem. For instance, the difference in the amount of fuel used by a car getting 40MPG and one getting 50MPG, is slightly less than the difference in fuel use of two cars getting 18 and 20MPG.
     
    #18 jburns, Oct 14, 2010
  19. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    no way you can show that 20 MPG is better than 50. And yes i know you are not showing that. C'mon. that's just silly to say the difference in fuel use is the number to focus on. Using less is using less...50 mpg combined is a far cry from 38 combined. period. the whole "improvement" numbers from a lower mpg vehicle rating is just green washing to justify a 20 mpg vehicle that was 'improved' from 18. that is still WAY less MPG than a 50 MPG vehicle, no matter what crazy math is spun.
     
    #19 finman, Oct 14, 2010
  20. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    Re: Hyundai's hybrid hybrid Sonata coming Oct-Nov 2010. Dedicated Hyundai hybrid model anounced for2

    I used the highway numbers only because I was comparing aerodynamics and the shape/looks of the cars. In other words, if Toyota put the HSD in the Yaris, Corolla, Matrix, Scions, could they still get highway mpg of at least 40mpg ? If so, I think Toyota would be smart in offering the other cars in a hybrid form, using the Prius HSD.
     
    #20 Rybold, Oct 14, 2010
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