Replacing a Gen I Hybrid battery

techinfo.toyota.com is a subscription website where you can download Toyota repair manual info. This will provide you with the correct procedure and all of the safety warnings and allow you to decide whether you can DIY this project.

You'll need to have a decent set of metric sockets, a socket wrench and open/box end wrenches. Good luck.

 

It is heavy but two people can swap it in about 4 hours:






The traction battery is about 80 pounds so two people can handle the job better than one. The scenario after making sure you have a metric socket kit, screw drivers and a digital camera (we want pictures

1. Remove rear seat and seat back
2. Remove rear cover and expose traction battery (take pictures)
3. Remove safety interlock and store
4. Disconnect wires
5. Disconnect bolts holding battery to car and vent tubing, save fasteners in cups or dishes
6. Remove old battery (take pictures)
7. Inspect new battery to make sure all mounting bolts will go in (we had to do a little Dremil tool tweaking)
8. Install battery and bolt down
9. Reconnect connectors and vents (take pictures)
10. Install safety interlock
11. "Smoke test"
12. Install felt liner and rear seat
13. Cleanup and store tools
14. Go for a braggin' cruise

Taking pictures does several things: gives a chance to step back and think about what you're about to do, and; document problems in case you need some help. Besides, we like pictures. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

I drove down to Daryl's place near Blountsville AL early on a Saturday morning. He already had the Re-InVolt battery in his shop. At 9:00 AM, we drove his 2001 Prius with 250,000 miles and a failing battery to the workshop. So we started and I took some pictures:

These are the original battery connectors. I took a photo in case I needed to reference it when we installed the replacement.

Here we can see the original traction battery:

The battery vent is at the far end. The black metal loop to the right is part of the seatbelt anchor system.

Before we installed the Re-InVolt battery, we tried all of the mounting bolts. One hole was not perfect:

You can see the end of the bolt can not quite go through the hole. So I took my Dremil tool and ground the hole a little larger so the bolt would go through. This was the only problem found and it was easily fixed.

Here we have the Re-InVolt battery with the NHW20 modules in place but not yet bolted down and installed:

This was after about 2 1/2 hours so we took a break. But soon the supervisor came around:


It is putting the fasteners back in where organization pays off:

As we removed the fasteners they went into plastic containers by size and function. This ensured we matched and used everyone for their proper purposes.

Now the power cable cover has a tricky, interlock that has four little prongs that expand when a pin is inserted. But the little prongs liked to spray out. So we use a small piece of plastic tape to hold the prongs together:

The interlock went in easily and the pin expanded the prongs correctly.

At 1:00 PM, the car started right up. We used my Graham scanner to check the minimum and maximum module voltages and which ones. They were nearly identical and the minimum and maximum battery module-pairs wandered, the mark of a well balanced traction battery. So I left Daryl to put the seats back in and he reports no problems.

David Taylor is reasonable and personable. I would recommend you and your wife give him a call next week and discuss your concerns. I can not even begin to speculate about your friend's problem. It would help to have their name and dates and ask David. He is almost as 'anal retentive' about such things as I am. . . . ask him.

Bob Wilson

 

You might want to try just the first steps and back them out:

1. Remove the rear seat - lift it up like you mean it and take it out of the car.
2. Clean out the loose change, candy wrappers, and debris.
3. Remove the anchor bolts hold the seat back and shift the seat belts to the side.
4. Lift up the rear seat back and remove from the car.

At this point, you are looking at a plastic cover that hides the battery. You may elect to remove it and look at the battery. Invite the wife to see what you've done.

1. Put the plastic cover back on.
2. Clean the seat back and put it back in.
3. Clean the seat bottom and put it back in.

The heaviest lifting is the traction battery. The most challenging task is keeping track of all the fasteners. The safety interlock is a little tricky but sticky tape solves the problem.

Bob Wilson

 

I've only seen one of their packs in the field; it had come back to the shop after setting codes that are consistent with a failed battery. The shop reported that the rebuilder had advised them to clear the codes and see if they came back. Naturally, the shop declined, preferring instead to find out what was wrong with the battery pack before returning it to the customer.

The rebuilder later speculated in this forum that the problem may have been caused by an assembly error on their part. However, no assembly errors could be found; the pack was simply faulty. From this experience, it is reasonable to assume that the Re-InVolt battery rebuilding method has not yet been perfected.

I would guess that most Re-InVolt rebuilt battery packs function correctly, at least in the short term. The claim has been made that such a pack is superior to a new battery pack from Toyota, but no evidence for such a claim has been offered.

 

If you have to grind the case to get it to fit, then something is probably wrong with the installation. The correct response would have been to investigate and rectify the cause of the problem. You may have had a bent case. Installing a battery pack in this vehicle does not require the use of a grinder.

You may also have had an interference issue between the case and the modules; the battery pack that you helped install had Gen II modules. Those modules do not fit correctly into a Gen I case due to their longer length, and the top cover often has to be pushed down onto the new modules with some force. The position of the new modules in the old case compromises the design of the battery pack's internal air flow. There's really nothing you can do about this, unfortunately.

If something doesn't fit, it's preferable to back up and find out why, rather than use brute force to "make it fit". From the problems you had and the methods you used, I'm guessing that this was your first attempt at swapping out a battery pack. If so, you may want to disclose this when offering advice.

 

Based on this I would just go buy a battery from toyota since theres no other way.

 

I was thinking about this when I woke up from a nap this afternoon and realized I've misread your note:

The extra cost of a Toyota battery is going to be a lot less than trouble at home or lawyers and alimony.

Just treat the extra expense as a gift to your wife . . . the cost of being married. She is not here posting and you've suggested she has already made up her mind. There are some battles just not worth fighting. You have the facts and data and some times decisions are driven by other requirements. Peace at home certainly qualifies.

It would be interesting to find out how much it finally costs. You can use $1,700 for Re-InVolt alternative with owner and helper, free labor, to value the gift.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

JK450, It appears you have some sort of agenda here with respect to our battery packs.

This is the second time you have mentioned this pack failure. The last time, I asked for specifics on the location of the customer or the date of the purchase so I could address the failure specifically and you have ignored that request so far.

If your concerns are legit, please post actual information that people are able to research and verify or debunk. The only reason I had need to speculate on that failure was because you would not reveal which pack you were referring to.
It would also be nice if you could show us a little more of a profile on yourself.
We certainly expect to have failures from time to time just the same as Toyota has. We believe our level of service to the customer will surpass what Toyota is currently offering when purchasing their pack.

To date, we are not aware of a single dissatisfied customer that has used our services. If you know otherwise, please give us names and locations so we can address them or give it a rest.
Thanks,

David Taylor
Re-Involt Technologies

 

Not at all. All I have is my own experience. Indeed, I observed that most of your packs will probably do okay, at least in the short term. Would someone with a "agenda" have mentioned that? I doubt it.

Regarding the packs that you have advertised in this forum, I first commented on them when forum member bwilson4web gave them a rousing endorsement. At the time, I pointed out that he did not have nearly enough data to make such a call (he had helped install a pack), and that it was too early to say whether or not the packs were well constructed. Given that a pack is expected to provide eight to ten years of service, and that none of your packs have been around that long, I think it's safe to say that the jury is out on that score, and that your customers will be the ones who find that out.

Here's an example of that process, from a previous post of yours:

So you had a ~15% failure rate with Gen 1 modules. A hard lesson. I realize that you now use Gen II modules, but don't forget that you learned this lesson on your customers' time, as well as your own.

Based on my experience with one of your packs, I also think it's safe to say that your rebuilding process is at present unable to conclusively identify whether or not your packs will last a long time. I'm sure you want to produce a quality product, but it looks like you're not quite there yet. I hope you succeed; consumers benefit from increased choices. But you'll need to be proactive, not defensive, to do so.

And speaking of agendas, would it be fair to say that your participation in this forum is at least partly driven by a desire to sell battery packs? I have no issue with that, but I'm not selling anything at all here. So the "agenda" argument falls a little flat.

Yes, it is. In both cases, my experience was relevant to the thread in which I posted. You can see for yourself by reading the threads.

Yes, that's correct. You had stated that you needed the information to "address" the issue. But the issue had already been addressed. A shop asked me to confirm their diagnosis. I did, and moved on.

Presumably, they returned the pack, so you will already have that information. Heck, you should have the pack itself. As for giving out the location of the customer and the date of purchase, the vehicle owner is not my customer, so it's not my right to do so. If you want, I can ask the shop if they would like to participate in the forum. It's their call, though.

I have no concerns. I simply reported my observations. However, the only way to "verify or debunk" my observations would have been to sit with me as I watched your rebuilt pack, which had set a P3006 DTC, fail Toyota's P3006 test.

Why? I have no need to stroke my own ego on this forum.

Maybe it will. Time will tell. The jury is still out.

That doesn't jibe with your earlier posts. You had mentioned several failures of your packs in the field:

Something tells me that those customers weren't exactly satisfied. I'm sure you stood behind your work, but let's face it: two out of 229 packs represents almost a 1% failure rate from incorrect assembly alone. That's more than a little excessive. Do you think folks have this kind of problem with Toyota's packs?

Ah, the high road. "Give in to my demands, or stop posting." With all due respect, I think I'll pass.

And now a question for you. Actually, it's a question that I have asked before, with no meaningful response. Since you have harped on unanswered questions, I'm sure you will be anxious to rectify this oversight. You had stated:

I had asked you to provide evidence of that:

Your reply did not answer the question:

You wouldn't learn much from that, so I will ask again: how did you verify that the internal design and components of replacement Toyota packs - electrolyte, separators, plates, and so on - are identical to those produced in 2001?

 

As I said - twice - I would guess that most Re-InVolt rebuilt battery packs will function correctly, at least in the short term. I just don't buy the "better than Toyota" argument. However, as you mentioned at the beginning of this thread, you've already bought a Re-InVolt battery. So I don't expect you to be that interested in any of its potential drawbacks. That's just human nature.

The data I posted is for folks who have not yet made a purchase. Best of luck with your installation.

 

Not at all. I said that I don't expect you to be interested in any of the battery's potential drawbacks. And I don't. Whether you choose to or not will be your choice, and is none of my business.

Based on your response, however, I think it is reasonable for me to have low expectations. You had previously expressed concern over whether or not your rebuilt battery will be reliable:

Since no one with direct experience about the reliability of the product had responded, I related my own direct experience with a failed pack in the field, as well as my conclusions. I also pointed out that installing Gen II modules in a Gen 1 battery pack housing compromises the air cooling system that has been designed into the pack.

In response, you've labeled such information as "off topic". Hence my low expectations.

You may well be. If so, then you already have a lot of information to digest in this thread.

See above.

A gentle suggestion: perhaps it is not up to you to decide what others should consider? At any rate, it's not a hypothetical argument, but a question, and one to which I hope I get an answer.

Keep in mind that I have not stated whether or not the rebuilt packs are better or worse than new Toyota packs. Again, there isn't enough data to make a determination. However, the packs are far from perfect, as I have found. Although they use modules which individually exhibit superior performance to the original modules, such modules must be harvested from at least two separate packs, and installed in such a manner as to modify the design of the pack. And again, these packs have been around for a short time. So when someone tells me how great they are, I ask them to explain how they have determined this. That's where things invariably get fuzzy.

 

The installation procedure is readily available in service information, and a shop willing to take on such a job would normally have access to that information. What kind of installation error did they make?