*sigh* Toyota To Sell Noisemaker add-on for Prius

May I add "pedrstrians are negligent" to your list?

 

A number were injured? What number? Is this documented anywhere? Which EVs were used in the study? There was a study, yes? How many were injured by cars that *could* be heard? What about the deaf? Do we paint cars neon colors as well? Should camo vehicles be illegal on the highways? Were the drivers of the EVs blind as well? Were the drivers trying to hit, or trying to avoid the blind people?

The federal statistics that are kept on pedestrian-vehicle deaths and injuries do not back up your findings, I'm afraid. But I'm sure you're aware of that since you've been working on this issue for a while. I DO have the federal stats if you'd like to review them.

Actually, it sounds more like it is you who thinks this is simple. Just add noise, and the problem is fixed! Everybody lives!

Which is EXACTLY why we should not add more sound to the mix. Get rid of the vehicles that make the masking noises, and you can then hear the EVs, the other pedestrians, the cyclists...

Really, does adding some space-ship sound help blind people "discern exactly what is going on?" I can already determine the brand of hybrid that pulls up behind me on my bike... by the sound alone. Is my hearing better than the average blind persons?

Did you also work at getting gasoline cars off the road since their exhaust kills more people than "quiet" cars could EVER kill blind people?

Then instead of forcing my car to add to the confusion and noise pollution, how about if you develop something that can be worn by the blind that alerts them to on-coming vehicles of any description? How about driver education? It is the job of the driver not to hit ANY pedestrians - regardless of propulsion system, or the sound it makes. They might not be asking for handouts, but they are asking the entire car-buying population to add expense and noise pollution to every new "quiet" vehicle.

What happens when a huge bus pulls up with the engine in the back? The engine is two car lengths behind the part that'll hit the pedestrians. What about modern gas cars that turn off the engine when coasting/braking? Why are we adding sound to quiet cars, while the rest of the industry does their level best to lower the sound signature of their ICE cars?

It is not me who thinks this "problem" is simple. It is me who thinks it is a solution LOOKING for a problem. Should we not be putting more effort into making the entire population safer - instead of concentrating on one small subset? We KNOW that gasoline is killing us. Indisputable. Get the gas cars off the road - don't put roadblocks up for the quiet cars that are part of the solution!

 

This debate never ends.

Right now, to those complaining, I'd just say it's all optional. Nobody is forcing you (as of yet) to bell your hybrid.

Personally, I actually find the idea of being able to emit a customizable sound...intriguing more than abhorent. Many of you "old timers" know that there is a certain price to be paid for adopting new technology or riding the introductory wave. Part of that price is being part of the education of the world around you. Right now, I'd say the idea of electrics and hybrids meeting standards of outward auditory output in an effort to be more recognizable to pedesterians, or the world around them is mostly embraced by those NOT owning hybrids or electrics.

I still just see this mostly as evolution. I think a lot of this will just shake out as hybrids and electrics become more common. So really, I wouldn't worry about it too much. As of now? Nobody is forcing you to have a permanent noise maker installed on your automobile. Who know's what the future will hold?

I just feel purchase of a hybrid or an electric did not entitle anyone to a guarantee that they have the right to drive a 3000 lb+ vehicle as silently as possible through side streets. Just because it CAN be quiet, doesn't mean it should be.

Those that fear a proliferation resulting in our streets sounding like an amped up Surround Sound version of The Jetsons? I wouldn't worry too much about that as well, I'd imagine if we approached that reality many of the same people advocating noisemakers would start complaining and start screaming...make it stop!

To me the key right now is that it is an evolution. Nobody really knows what the reality of having a significant number of electric vehicles on the roads with ICE's actually is, in relationship to most pedestrians auditory expectations and awareness. I don't think anyone can really say, noisemakers don't make it safer...I don't think anyone can say they absolutely DO make it safer either....

In anycase, as long as it remains "optional" and as long as it comes with an off switch..why should this bother anyone?

This is part of the universal dance of "How can we best get along". Will some of the potential stealthy quietness of a hybrid or electric get sacrificed to the seeming greater good of the community around them? Maybe.

But to get too upset, or to think that purchase or ownership of a hybrid or electric entitles you to a level of outward driving silence that "might" in all reality be indusive to creating dangerous situations?

Come on? I was never one of these kids, but most of us know of the young kid who actually tuned his car to be as loud as possible. People still buy exhausts and mufflers with an auditory eye to the "enjoyment" they get from the sound produced. ---It was something I never related to, or understood, but it still happens. When I was a kid, I never wanted to put the playing card in the spokes of my bicycle...it seemed stupid...but for those kids that did? Hey, they could pedal around and it was fine with me...

The automobile auditory wave of the future might just be customizable sounds. The reality of how much a soundmaker is needed, will shake out. Right now? If it's optional? I say I want one that makes mine sound like a space ship, and one that makes it sound like a 70's muscle car. I'm reliving my childhood and this time I want the playing card in the spokes of my bicycle.

 

In my community, we already have tragic evidence that freight train horns are not always loud enough for this function.

There is no sound level that is both sufficiently loud to alert every inattentive pedestrian, and quiet enough to be legal under noise ordinances.

 

but fuzzy, did the person or car that got hit by the train even look? to me it sounds like a case of personal responsibility.

a few years back, a girl rode her back through an intersection and was hit by a car. she survived, but some in the town went ballistic. it would seem to me that this was just an accident and the girl needs to be more careful. But that's not how the town responded. The speed limit of the road was dropped from 35 to 25, and the city built a sidewalk along the road where the car was driving. I have yet to have anyone explain to me how either of those "solutions" would have prevented this accident from happening, nor how they will prevent the same situation in the future. It was merely appeasement for people who were upset by that fact that a girl on a bike got hit by a car. so now, we all must be guilty and pay the price for that.

 

Can this editorial be synopsized?

Oh yeah = blah blah blah. Talk about an auditory wave. bye bye.

 

That was exactly my first reaction to reading about the problem.

I see I'm going to have to get up earlier if I'm going to be the first one to make a smart arsed remark. The competition is tough here.

 

Again like noisemakers...optional. Did I force you to read it? And if you don't like it? Actually that's fine with me.

 

As a cyclist who on several occasions was startled to find hybrids in EV mode a few feet behind, this is a good thing. I had to dodge a pot hole as a Prius in EV mode was just about to pass me... I did not hear it coming... accident averted, but not fun memory of anyone.

If it comes as standard feature with a on/off switch, great. Would I go get it just for the fellow cyclists... i think i will just hit the PWR MODE and turn on the ICE for a few seconds.

 

I think that the Prius is perfect as it exists today - Very Quiet (low noise pollution emitter).

Have you guys ever heard of "Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection"? Maybe what the human race needs are more humans that are aware of their surroundings instead of being so involved with themselves (no, the world is not all about me).

Keith

 

"Darwins Theory of Natural Selection"? I suggested once that one of the reasons that Prius Owners are so bent on being as silent is possible is the entire idea of being the superior predator. The Silent Hunter...

The suggestion was more or less met with the silence it probably deserved....

 

How did you know it was in EV mode? By the whine of the invertor? By the sound of it's quietly operating ICE at speed.
I contend if the vehicle was a newer Civic or Focus, you probably would not have heard it coming as well. Same non-sound other than tires scrubbing on the road surface.

Much ado about nothing. But watch for potholes - and check over your shoulder before changing lanes. Like we're all supposed to do driving any vehicle.

 

I think a better solution would be have 2 horns. Have a smaller chirpy sounding horn button for honking at dumb pedestrians on their cell-phones and a regular horn for honking at the lady in front of you at the traffic light with her radio blaring while she is applying makeup and not realizing that the light has changed to green.

 

At 55dB I reckon that device would be louder than the Prius horn anyway, so you might as well just lean on the horn.
I do quite like the idea of making a noise to shock, oops, I mean warn, inattentive pedestrians, but for that price it should have a choice of sounds.
Here's a few suggestions:
Ride of the valkyries
"Warning Will Robinson" from Robbie the robot in lost in space.
Loony tunes intro
Loud bang
Ooogah (old car horn)
Terminator walking
(feel free to add more)
or they should make it programmable with your own sounds.:rockon:

 

It's not OK to add another piece of crap to the car because some safety faerie had a nocturnal emission while dreaming about micromanaging others lives.

 

My understanding is that the noise produced is going to be a humming tone of some kind. Does this mean that Prius will now become the new Hummer??? ALso, if you switch the gadget off and have an accident with some one who couldn't hear you coming does that make the driver more liable even negligent. whooo doggie, a whole new can of worms being opened.

 

Since some wingnuts insists on hanging a a "bell" on Prii, we should hang a very loud horn (ear piercing shrill) on fuel guzzling inefficient vehicles, especially those jacked-up pickups.

 

Side topic re this. I'm not a Green person to the extreme, but watch all my energy usage and feel good about being a Prius Person.

It has always galled me to see a 16 wheeler up ahead spewing that ugly smelly black gunk out of the pipes. Certainly has abated over the last 30 years or so, but still see them once in a while. And yes, those Monster Trucks...well, to each their own but still.

Does anybody know how many Prii it takes to equal the emissions from an average big truck? I'd have to believe someone here has done the calc.

 

Can you define good? It is a "good thing" because you can continue to NOT be aware of your surroundings as long as everything dangerous makes noise? I'm thrilled that you are a cyclist. If we all did that, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But wait... do you have a noise-maker on your bike? How do pedestrians know you are coming? Do you feel as if you are a danger to them, or do you take the responsibility to not hit them knowing that the pedestrians may not hear you coming?

First off - I can hear hybrids and EVs approaching me if I'm going relatively slowly. Going 20+ mph, and I can't even hear loud cars until they're passing me. Either way, I'd never swerve into a traffic lane without first looking. I wear a mirror every time I ride on the road, and know what is going on all around me. Oh... and if I were blind, I wouldn't be riding.

Personal responsibility would have solved this one, it seems. Even better and cheaper than noise makers on hybrids!

Of course this is how the EV1 was set up and how the Volt will be released. It is the perfect solution. User-operated sound devices. A warble for "hello, I'm here" and the real horn for the other stuff. Not something that makes noise all the time the car is inching along. Use it when you need it - just like a horn that we've all managed with forever.

 

Darwin's Theory was dis-proven LONG ago. See the 2nd law of thermodynamics ... entropy. Things do not get better with time. People do not get better. They break down. Thus, we get more & more cancers (for example) as our genetic code brakes down / being subjected to x-rays, gamma rays, cosmic rays of all kinds. Look at the dummies that can't avoid an oncoming car. If Darwin was right, after all the 'stupid' chromosomes were eliminated during all the 10's of thousands of fatalities in the U.S. alone, over all the past 7 or 8 decades - never mind the whole world ... we'd be really really good at avoiding traffic. but as it is ... cars get safer & safer. regulations get heavier & heavier, yet the stupid continues.


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