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Bad Alignment :(

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by GasSaver1, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. GasSaver1

    GasSaver1 Member

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    I think I am in trouble......
    In my quest for new tires, I decided to get an alignment (for the first time since I took delivery of the car). I noticed some unusual wear on the inner and outter tire. I will post a before and after pic of the alignment. As you can see they were unable to correct everything.

    The shop says that the prius does not have any way to correct camber in the front nor was there any way to correct the toe in the rear.

    Based on how far I am off, do I need to worry? Should I get a second opinion? I hit a curb once almost a year ago on the front right but I cannot think of anything that would have messed up the rear left. The shop was saying these repairs will need either a new control arm or strut.

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  2. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Bob Wilson has aligned the rear end of his Gen2 with an aftermarket shim kit.

    Prius tire alignment - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

    He has also written up the rear alignment procedure on Prius chat, IIRC, the Priuschat write-up is more detailed.

    He also mentions the possibility of rotating and/or replacing some front suspension bolts to adjust front Camber. The Gen3 repair manual describes how to do that, if the Gen2 is the same basic system, it's just a matter of finding out which bolts you have and using a chart to figure out which ones you need to get your desired front camber. The bolts are marked on their heads, so you don't have to take them out to find out which ones you have.

    Note: I am assuming that Toyota actually carries those parts. :D

    Your alignment look very fixable, you just either need to do it yourself or find a competent shop (not always easy to do).

    I haven't torn into a Prius suspension yet, typically when an adjustment is held by bolts like the front camber adjustment, the act of loosening and tightening the bolts can result in a small change.

    A way to deal with that is to:

    1. Loosen the bolts, bounce the car up and down so everything takes a set in one
    direction.

    2. Put the car on the rack and check alignment.

    3. Calculate which bolts you need and which positions to install them.

    4. Swap in your new bolts, bounce the car before tightening the bolts, then tighten the bolts.

    5. Recheck the alignment.

    Your alignment should then end up where you want it.

    Edit: Here's Gen2 front camber adjustment instructions.
    http://www.vfaq.net/docs/Springs-04priusr_26_200s5_a040001.pdf
    They are similar to Gen3 instructions.

    They have you push or pull on the strut to take out slop instead of bouncing the car. Both methods work, just pick one method and stick with it.
     
  3. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    The shop is wrong about camber; you can easily adjust front camber - it is a very conventional strut suspension in the front. You loosen the strut bolts and pull the hub in the direction that you need to go. Toyota makes adjustment bolts in cases where the camber isn't in spec after using all of the adjustment available with the stock bolts.

    The shop is technically right if you go by the factory service manual; the rear toe and camber is fixed, and the factory manual says you have to replace the rear axle beam if it is not in spec. However, there are aftermarket shims available to adjust both rear toe and rear camber.

    On my 2007, I had similar readings as your car, the front camber was corrected by using a "camber bolt" and the rear toe was corrected using shims.
     
  4. s3nfo

    s3nfo Member

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    What you really need is a new shop. Adjusting strut attachment points and installing cam bolts is a bit of work so any shop that tells you they can't adjust camber on the front or toe on the rear doesn't have a clue how to do alignments or is just lazy and only wants to do the easy stuff.
     
  5. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Most people also wouldn't go for a full alignment on a Prius once they found out how much it would cost to get non-standard adjustments made at hourly shop rates. A competent shop would at least tell them though.
     
  6. sktn77a

    sktn77a Member

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    The front camber adjustment shouldn't be an issue but you may need to take it to a Toyota dealer to get the correct alignment bolts. As someone said earlier, Toyota probably won't work on the rear axel carrier as their official position is that it's not adjustable. However, some dealers and some specialist shops will do this.
     
  7. GasSaver1

    GasSaver1 Member

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    Hmmm I am not sure I should really do anything.

    For the rear toe the range is .03 to .28 according to the print out and I was at .34 so that is .06 degrees of toe in. Granted it isnt perfect, but in all how much will .06 of a degree really hurt me. I am sure the tires on the left side of the car will wear and need to be replaced in line with the tires on the right side anyway.

    As far as the right camber, the front right camber range is: -1.3 to .2 degrees and I am at -1.5 so that is like -.2 degrees over spec in at the bottom. I am not sure I am going to worry about this either, the reason being: if I was really over, I would see wear on the outside of the tire, however, all four tires are worn about the same amount on the inside and outside. (the inner are worn more but what I mean is that it is uniform across all tires). If the camber was an issue on the right side of the car I would see the outter edge worn more (due to the camber) and on the left side of the car I would see the inner edge worn more (due to the toe) but it is all uniform.

    I am not too trusting about the shop, when I mentioned I was going to get a second opinon the tech started saying that alignment was tricky and I might hit a bump and it suddenly goes back into spec so I might get better results in a second opinion but that does not mean this is not the way the alignment is at this very moment.

    Then he mentioned how the prius is so sensitive that even rolling over the wakeup bumps on the expressway was enough to mess up the alignment.
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, that is your business. However, since you had posted your results and had earlier asked for comments:

    I personally would be concerned about the front total toe-in, which is a negative reading and means that the two tires are pointing slightly outwards. (Imagine trying to ski with the ski tips pointed outwards.) The front toe-in should be as close to 0 as possible. If there is an error it should be in the direction of a slight positive toe-in.

    I am wondering whether the shop even made an effort to adjust the front right camber? As previously pointed out, it is possible to make limited adjustments to camber by loosening the two bolts that secure the bottom of the strut to the hub carrier assembly, and moving the strut out as needed to correct the camber problem. Additional adjustment range can be obtained by installing the correct specialized camber bolt.

    However, if you don't notice excessive tire wear on the front right tire then I suppose the camber adjustment is not a high priority, and one might justify the negative camber by saying that this is required to compensate for driving on crowned roads.

    I would be concerned about the rear total toe-in because the reading is excessive. The implication of that is that there is more drag than necessary, thus having a negative mpg impact.
     
  9. GasSaver1

    GasSaver1 Member

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    The front of the car does not have toe in, the front left had toe in initially but that was corrected. The only issue in the front is the camber
     
  10. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    It's more that 0.06 from what it should be.

    You are comparing it with what Toyota considers the worst acceptable amount of toe on an inexpensive non-adjustable rear suspension, not necessarily whats good.

    That said, you seem to have realistic expectations given the situation and your tires aren't going to suddenly disappear in a puff of smoke. Please keep us posted on what you observe.:rockon:
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, its hard to read your posted exhibits, but it appears that the car has total toe-in of -0.13. The negative sign means that the wheels are actually toe-out.
     
  12. GasSaver1

    GasSaver1 Member

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    I had toyota do an alignment with the tire install today and they got everything back into spec without issue or anything over the standard $80 charge.

    they were also able to install the tires, mount balance and toss the old ones with no TPMS rebuild and for the sum of $15/tire.