EV's: They're Only as Green as Your Grid's Fuel

Have higher cigarette taxes reduced cigarette use? Not from what I have seen. I do not know one person who quit or cut back on cigarettes because the cost was too high.

 

Would I sound ignorant if I say I don't care?

Of course an electric automobile isn't going to be perfect. It's going to use resources to store energy to provide personal momentum for it's owner. So it's going to be tied to whatever the ecological and social and political and economical cost of creating that energy will be...in this case mostly electricity and battery creation.

But I don't care that it's not a perfect solution. A major criticism of The Prius has long been similar, that it is not as perfect a solution as it is marketed to be, or thought to be, and my answer then is the same as my answer today, I don't care. I don't care that it's not perfect.

It's change. Be it Hybrid, Full Electric, Hydrogen or some yet unknown technology or combinations of technology. And IMO when it comes to burning fossil fuels to power our machines of personal transportation any change represents advancement.

Should we sit back and say, good enough? Or bask in the laurels of our apparent advancement? No. But pointing out that electrics will be dependent on the creation of electricity off the grid...while true, is no reason to disparage the idea or the ultimate products.

I read once that one of the most efficient machines of transportation was a human being on a bicycle. Would I discourage bicycles because they are not perfect for everyone all the time?

All I'm saying is brace yourself for the inevitable criticism...Electrics aren't the perfect answer thus they should be shunned and ridiculed...because it's coming.

 

Actually, yes. Higher cost of cigarettes have corresponded with a decrease in the number of smokers. I am sure it isn't the ONLY factor, but it is one of the factors.

 

Actually, I hear it all the time as a physician. And of course we are not counting those people who did not *start* smoking due to cost.

Moreover, the situations are not similar enough to be useful, because smoking *tends* to be a yes or no affair, while in the case of petrol taxes the goal is conservative use. Driving slower, in smaller vehicles, combining errands, and car-pooling are minor changes to continued auto transport that can decrease use dramatically.

 

Depends how high the tax goes!

Here in the UK cigarette tax is massive - a pack of 20 costs about £6.20 ($9.80!) and they're talking of increasing it further;

Cigarettes cost could go up to £7.42 - mirror.co.uk

As a result, cigarette use has reduced by 25% in the last ten years.

The Big Question: Can the number of smokers in the UK be reduced to one in 10 by 2020? - Health News, Health & Families - The Independent

Whether it's right or wrong to tax them is another thing.

 

I know people who have stopped smoking because the tax was too high, they just couldnt afford it. It does help.

 

It is encouraging to hear the tax has had a positive effect. I wonder what it would take to get people to conserve gas? I work with a guy who spends $10 per day on gas.

 

As we saw in 2008, once gas prices got over $3.50/gal, we started seeing dramatic shifts in consumer behavior... It would likely take prices over $4/gal for an extended period of time to cause a permanent shift.

 

Considering how healthcare in Blighty works, I think it makes perfect sense to do another tax rise. Why should everyone have to pay for the expensive effects of a lifetime smoking via an increase in the VAT? That won't curb the behavior (which is the real goal anyways) that leads to increased healthcare costs for everybody.

Should be 10 quid for a pack of tabs IMO.

 

Yes, I hear this as a reason to keep subsidizing gasoline. At least we know exactly what our money is being wasted on when we throw it away on a product that is ruining us.

Seroiusly - even if the money were given to me to buy more gold-plated Ti pieces for my bicyles, we'd be better off with a proper floor price for gasoline.

 

Yup. The classic "The perfect is the enemy of the good" situation. And we hear it all the time. EVs suck because they aren't going to work for everybody in all situations. You know - just like sedans, sports cars, motorcycles, RVs, etc.

In some vehicles that just a 40 mile RT commute! One guy in my neighborhood spends $35 per day on gas. And $30 per day to park. But hey... he makes more money than god, so no gas tax would bother him.

 

Darrell, did I miss your post ? I seem to remember you saying you would mull over my peter/paul enviro argument and post later.

 

I'm not one to duck my promises or obligations... but sometimes I do get spread a bit thin. If you can point me to what I said I'd do... and what it is I was responding to, I'll do my best! This thread? I'll go check.

I just rode 130 miles with 9,500 of climbing... and I'm "recovering" with some beer, so my reponse won't be like RIGHT NOW.

 

I thought you were suppose to fuel the vehicle before the trip.

 

Hmm... 130 miles - just how green is that beer you are fueling yourself with?

The ride you just finished sounds similar to the Death Ride...

 

I know you were kidding... but I take this seriously! It is locally brewed, and the majority of the energy used to make it comes from solar.
http://www.sierranevada.com/environment.html
So... greener than most of the food products that Americans consume these days. Even their bike jerseys are made with 100% post consumer recycled product: http://www.sierranevadagiftshop.com/apparel/cycling-jerseys/pale-ale-bike-jersey-green.html

Not quite. I didn't do the Death Ride this year, though several of my riding buddies did. Doing all the passes of the Death Ride is a WAY bigger deal than the 200k brevet that I just completed. More elevation gain, longer distance, and way more riding at elevation all take their toll.

 

Nancy. :boink:

 

Shirley!

 

That basket kills aerodynamics. For longer rides, local brewers set up for us, that saves on transportation energy for our green fuel. Unfortunately often post ride we often eat animal protein which is an inefficient use of energy. You need to draw the line somewhere.

A friend running leadville (100 mile hilly trails in Colorado) said he will burn about 10K calories. At those levels you can't get all of your nutrition from beer. I think I can on a century ride though ;-)