Nissan claims dual-clutch+1MG hybrid is more efficient than eCVT+2MGs

They are still using 7 speed automatic transmission plus two clutches and one MG.

For complexity comparison, see this thread.

I posted this price comparison in the other thread:

The notion that using the same automatic transmission is cheaper and less complex is a hoax. See my previous post about the complexity pictures. Here is a price comparison of 2009 Prius hybrid transaxle vs. 2009 Matrix 1.8L automatic.

2009 Prius Hybrid Transaxle: $2,633.94 (includes MG1 and MG2 electric propulsion)

2009 Matrix Automatic Transaxle + Torque Converter: $2,600.03 ($2,013.32 + $596.71)

Torque converter in their 7 speed auto will be replaced with 67hp electric motor so it will be more expensive. This further add to my point because HSD transaxle includes both MGs in the price.

 

Peak power in step gear transmissions need to be higher to compare with eCVT as well. It'll be interesting to see how Infiniti hybrid will compare to Lexus.

 

CVT/PSD Patent licensing....

 

makes me worry about leaf claims.

 

Yup, GS450h ICE runs on Otto cycle. It is tuned more toward power and responsiveness.

GS450h is 541 lbs heavier than BMW 335i but with 40 hp peak power advantage. See the video below how they accelerated. 335i cheated with the engine revving at 3k RPM and started early too. GS450h accelerated smoothly and consistently.

Infiniti M hybrid will have 29 hp peak advantage over GS450h but M will have step gear transmission. They weight about the same so it will be a very close call. My bet would be on GS450h despite lower peak hp.

 

2012 Infiniti M35 Hybrid First Drive - Motor Trend

66 lbs may mainly be the battery pack. I'll agree with usb that the powertrain isn't likely to be less complex than the lexus, but infiniti doesn't need to pay toyota for it. I'll also take an educated guess that the M will accelerate slightly slower than the GS.

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There is a limitation in having only one MG. You can't power the wheels and regen electricity at the same time. This would limit possibilities of saving fuel.

Six years of development and they are still smoothing out clutch engagements -- yet they say it is less complex...

Don't get me wrong, these new developments are good things. I just disagree with the claims.

 

You should be able to use the motor to generate electricity while the engine is turning and connected to the wheels. Or am I missing something.

Hyundai claimed that new electronics allow for them to match engine and motor speeds using fuel flow and spark advance. It sounds like Infiniti is behind on this.

 

FYI,
Following is the Nissan's hybrid power train information.
JATCO Ltd ||| Transmission for Hybrid RWD vehicles |||

Ken@Japan

 

You almost fooled me, but you forget to add in the costs of the two inverters for the Prius MG1 and MG2 while the Matrix requires none.
So the HSD is much more expensive.

 

It has a lot of potential and I can see where it avoids some HSD losses. But it will be a real challenge to handle the clutches under different loads. IMHO, it should scale very nicely for pickup trucks and small/medium utility vehicles.

Bob Wilson

 

I was not comparing Prius transaxle to Matrix auto transaxle. I was using Matrix's auto transaxle in reference to Nissan's claim of their hybrid (using auto) costing less than HSD.

This Infiniti M hybrid would have 7 speed auto tranny along with MG and 2 clutches and inverters as well. I think Prius use the same inverter for both MGs that runs up to 650V.