If there was No Prius, There'd Be No GM VOLT !

That's the best you've got? I rest my case.

 

Weak, at best. :blah:

 

Henry Ford was also anti-semitic. Ford was also pals with Adolf Hitler, was against American involvement in WWI and WWII. so lets not use ford as the reason we have a prius lol

 

New Yorker, I disagree with your timeline. When Toyota asked to be included in the Supercar project they were told "Sorry, Americans only." Scared sh!tless (my opinion) that a viable vehicle will be developed & sold they started development of what became the Prius. GM, Ford & D-C used their influence to modify the program to the point that they had to develop only 1 prototype each. My sources are "The Prius that Shook the World" & Sam Roe's "Supercar: The Tanking of an American Dream" published by the Chicago Tribune. TonyS posted the Trib article. I don't remember who posted Toyota's book.

Ransome Olds also has a claim to the 1st assembly line in an Oldsmobile plant. (He also founded REO). Does Henry's static line (where the workers move, not the product) really deserve to be called first? A century later, what difference does it make?

IMO GM refused to sell the EV-1's at any price because if word spread about this model's performance & maintenance needs Mr. Goodwrench's cash flow would be cut.

 

Might I suggest you do a little more reading as to who, what, when, where, why and how the EV1 was killed? It wasn't JUST GM. Big oil, the government and a host of others had a play in it all.

I'm not a Toyota lover. I'm not a GM lover either. My HHR is going as soon as I can find a worthy replacement. I do like my wifes Prius but I'm still not sold 100% on it.

What I suggest is you get off your high horse of Toyota is the best and take a realistic look at things.

You might just realize that all manufacturers influence each other as well as Government.

The up side of this is as the pony wars of years past. Within the next few years hybrids and electrics will compete head to head with everyone winning and our enviornment being cleaner....once they find a better way to mine the precious metals used in all of these batteries or find a better way to *store* electricity.

 

Here you go!

The Prius that Shook the World

Supercar: The Tanking of an American Dream

 

Perhaps no one is wrong. They were parallel.
Toyota Project G21 started 1990, the same year GM was invited to bring experimental EV1 electric car to production...And only went to sale one year earlier that the Prius.


[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1]General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-celebrates-10-years-of-164612.aspx

 

The Volt is overpriced when compared to the Prius. Even with Nissan Leaf. When will GM learn from its mistakes?

 

You are right, New Yorker. In addition to my 2010 Prius, I own two General Motors cars. One is a 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS and the other is a 2006 Chevrolet Impala LT. While the Camaro is too new to accurately judge (I bought it in February and I only have about 6,000 miles on the odometer), the Impala (which is four years old and has 52,000 miles on the odometer) is a piece of junk. In addition to some minor problems, the car is starting to develop some serious mechanical problems (brake, front end, transmission).

I sold my last Toyota (a 1997 Avalon) to my stepmother four years ago, and despite now having almost 175,000 on the odometer, it is still running trouble free. I expect my Chevy Impala to die before it reaches 75,000 miles!

 

You're right. But the Prius is a ripoff at $22k+ - I'm going to go buy me a Hyundai Accent for $10k and use the other $12k for gasoline which should buy me about 4,000 gallons of gas. The Accent gets 31mpg combined compared to the Prius 50 mpg, but 4,000 of gas at 20 mpg-difference - I'll have to drive the car 400,000 miles before I "break even" on the Prius. That's 30 years of driving and the battery will never last that long!!!

 

Well...what a surprise...this topic has been move to the appropriate sub-forum.

 

But the Volt is not to the Prius as Prius is to the Accent.

Volt is not bigger than the Prius. It is in fact smaller (4 seater). Volt doesn't have Smart Key System. It is standard in Prius. Volt has the EV range and connectivity over Prius -- for $24k premium.

$24k plugin premium for what? To save 3,000 gallons Prius would use otherwise. Look, you can buy 3,000 gallons of gas for $9,000. Return it back to earth (dump it in the ground?) and still left with $15k to pocket.

 

Now.....or never.

The Volt is overpriced because GM lost the dicipline to make ANY small car at a reasonable price quite some time ago. I'm much less worried about the Volt price than the GM culture of 'the smaller the vehicle, the lower the quality'. That is actually a more important component of GM's survival than the technology put into the Volt.

 

Hi New_Yorker,

This is OT, but I see that you had a Gen II Touring and now have a Gen III. Which do you like better?

I'm trying to decide between a fully loaded Gen II Touring with leather versus a Gen III package II

Thanks,
Grayson

 

Hi New_Yorker,

I do not remember a subsidy to make the EV1. But, Clinton/Gore administration trew really big money (called the PNGV - Partnership for a Next Generation Vehicle - http://www.chicagopriusgroup.com/resources/SuperCar.pdf ) at GM et all and GM came up with a car called the Precept (A Turbo Diesel Thru-the-road Electric Hybrid that did 80 mpg on the old EPA test). This was after CARB let them out of the EV requirement, with an under-the-table agreement to come out with larger numbers of Hybrids. Which never happened from GM and Chrysler, and only is now happening from Ford. But Toyota lived up to this deal, and produced the Prius.

 

Why?

Its' our taxpayers ' bailout money being used to keep Government Motors alive. We taxpayers have every right to complain.

DBCassidy

 

Dude, it's a two year old thread....

 

No. Volt was in response to CA CARB and Federal regulatory push for non-polluting, non-oil burning vehicles. The Volt doesn't compete in any real way with the Prius. GM builds them to meet regulatory requirements. There are no other GM hybrids, GM is not in the modern car market, they are just an industrial dinosaur looking at the Tesla's like they are meteors.