"Raise the gas tax", USA Today Editorial Board says

What you take with one hand, you give with the other.

A 'ring fenced' tax system for cars.

 

Right, minus the overhead of the bureaucracy. So in the end you pay for your incentive twice or more times. Make sense.</sarcasm>

I don't know about deres, but I pay a pretty good chunk of change to the Gov every year. Suppose they could redirect some of those funds to pay for the incentives (they already have C4C). Now with that said, I don't think the Gov should artificially keep the price of gas down through subsidies either.

 

Great, so you're volunteering to directly pay people who buy vehicles which reduce their oil consumption? I might be buying a Nissan Leaf - I'll send you my address and you can cut me an incentive check.

 

Sure. And when I buy mine, you cut me a check. This way we will cut out the middle man (big brother).

 

As I've said for years, phase in higher price at the pump while lowering income taxes - truckers get a tax break. After the dust settles, government takes in the same amount of money, while giving people an incentive to conserve.

 

I don't think we need to tax gas - we just need to end oil subsidies. This includes not spending half a trillion $ every year in middle east on "energy security".

Or

Ten cents increase every month for next 5 years. That should do it. Use the money to fund mass transit and alternate fuel subsidies.

 

there was a study that said if we took 50% of what we paid in gas every year, we would be able to build a completely self sufficient energy grid with wind and solar with EV cars running batteries subsidized by the government to put vehicles on the market for under $20K in 10 years.

OR,

we can continue to pay twice as much FOREVER for gas.

granted i think the study was run when oil was north of $140 a barrel. but you get the point.

 

In my humble opinion, a better incentive to get better fuel economy is impose excise taxes based on engine displacement and vehicle size like they do in Europe and Japan.

I mean think about it: do we really need most family cars to be wider than 1700 mm (just under 6.5 feet)? Or have big-displacement engines? Thanks to modern technology, today's very small cars are amazingly roomy inside (to take a look at the current Honda Fit for example) and a modern 2.0-liter I-4 engine can easily generate over 150 bhp without needing premium unleaded gas when you use direct fuel injection and variable valve timing. And even small displacement engines can generate over 170 bhp with modern turbochargers and superchargers.

I do think eventually the US will impose excise taxes based on vehicle size and engine displacement, and that will spur on a LOT more sales of smaller cars.

 

Frankly, I could care less about how big the engine or vehicle is. Engine displacement is not an accurate indicator of fuel economy. The 2.0l engine in my other vehicles gets a craptacular 20mpg city, 27mpg highway at best. The car is a compact. Recent iterations are similar even though engine displacement has increased by 40+%. Vehicle size isn't an issue, either.

Now - vehicle weight is something I could get behind taxing as that directly affects fuel economy as well as the safety of others.

 

Have you looked at a modern American family ? The thinnest state today is fatter than the fattest 20 years back

Anyway, the problem in the US really is that the political system is geared towards protecting the status quo. Any big change (i.e. any change that hurts a lobby) will not get passed. We will have to wait for another price shock before something can be done ...

 

When it comes to gas consumption, most Americans seem to respond like a two-year old to sweets, they will pout unless they have more. It takes something like $4 a gallon gas to get people to respond, and by then a lot of economic damage is done (bankruptcy for GM & Chrysler with tens of thousands gone from the American automotive economy )

Until it's painfully expensive, people will rationalize driving in ways that waste gas...I literally heard a 6'3" guy told me he "needs" a Ford Explorer as smaller vehicles are too small for his work errands.

Market changes can be very powerful in changing behavior, but again it's a shame millions wait until there is a train wreck.

I'm for less government, but also for less recessions. That's why I favor shifting revenue from income taxes to taxing gasoline. Oil companies get government subsidies anyway, so if anyone wants to use the socialism card - include that.

 

I still prefer the fuel tax, because it is proportional to actual use and consumption.

The land barges have their purpose. But when they are taxed on size, the owners who have them only for their designed use, while commute in something small and efficient the rest of the time, pay the same tax penalty as those using these barges as single-occupant daily commuters.

Or do you really want an upfront tax to compensate for the poor math and budgeting skills of many Americans that prevents them from comprehending the lifetime cost of small monthly bills?

 

I've questioned this before and got shot down, but I'll say it again. America could reduce it's oil dependency (or even become self sufficient) and cut emissions by way over 40% if they had the same economy out of their vehicles as we do. Do you really need Explorers and big 6 litre pickups. Pretty much everyone else in the world manages without and yet still manage to have ambulances, tow trailers, tow horses, tow cars, tow a boat, go camping and all the other things people do but without these huge gas guzzlers.

If you want to change you will, if you don't you won't.

It is a free world are you are free to choose. But it ain't rocket science. The technology is out there already and in use in Europe and Japan.

 

In addition to that, it is easy to administer and difficult to cheat.

In the ideal world there would be some advantage to adding a variable tax to fuel to stabilize price and encourage development of higher fuel efficiency and alternative transportation sources. Unfortunately, I believe that in the real world it would just turn into another tax money grab with the spoils going to whoever buys off the most Congress Critters.

Another approach would to be add a tax to fuel that reflects how much we spend on the military because we are dependent on shaky foreign fuel supplies. That would raise the price of fuel to it's true price and to be fairly applied would require a reduction of taxes in other ares that presently support military expenses. Once again, i don't believe our Congress Critters are up to the job of doing that correctly and without corruption.

 

Ford Explorers aren't so much the problem compared to monstrosity class SUVs like Excretions errr... Excursions, Expeditions, Suburbans, Tahoes, Yukons, Navigators and Ice Capades errr... Escaldaes.

No, most Americans don't need these vehicles most of the time, esp. when they're so often being driven solo or w/minimal passengers and cargo, almost never towing anything. But, that doesn't stop them.

We've got to do something about educating public on where almost all of the oil reserves reside, how much oil we consume a day, how much oil we import daily, how much $ we're sending abroad, oil choke points like the Strait of Hormuz, etc.

I posted a sobering stat at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...standards-50-mpg-poll-finds.html#post1124751:

We ought to force consumers who buy such vehicles w/out an actual need to be educated on the above and required to serve in the military in the Middle East or work hands-on in oil drilling and production for a year.

We've got too many people like this guy Talk me out of buying an H2 hummer - MY350Z.COM Forums. I kept trying to talk him out of buying a 6400+ lb. 9 to 11 (US) mpg uber-battering ram of death as he couldn't care less about oil consumption and dependency nor the safety other drivers. Fortunately, he eventually got a used BMW 525i which is far better choice than the above.

 

Lots of you guys crack me up... People saying they pay enough to the government already, are just being greedy bastards. In the US, the tax is waaaaaay too low to provide services. And arguing about 2trillion over many years on healthcare, is rediculous when just the Iraq War has already cost 800billion and is estimated to cost 2.4trillion to way more than 3 trillion not even including the health effects of the mangled people that return.

Eveyone wants everything, but doesnt want to pay for anything.

Poor people will find a way. Gradually increasing the tax is just delaying the inevitable. Fix it by just raising it to what it should be, and more overnight. People will buy as much gas as they can the night before, running all of the tanks dry but that will only last them a few weeks at most. Then they will be forced to pay $8 gallon. Dont like it, don't drive. That simple.

I work with some "poor" people, and believe me, they are poor by choice. Throughout university I have worked my nice person off and graduated loan free with a surplus running my own business even in this economy. I also work at a fast-food place one day a week for social reasons and many of my coworkers there complain they dont make enough. But when questioned as to why they pay $100+ for cable, another $50+ for high speed internet, $200+ for their phone plans, some smoke, most drink everynight and not in moderation, and the list goes on and on. They are living paycheque to paycheque because they are living right on the edge of their means. Any extra tax would seriously hamper their social life, but boo-hoo, they'll get over it. When gas was $4/gallon, I only know of one person that cut out cable, everything else was the same. Any savings they had, they exhausted. Then when they literally had no money in their wallets for gas, they drove less (duh). Near the end of that summer they were all still alive, still in their apartments, and a little thinner. But carpooled to work, stayed for their split shifts (instead of driving home for a 2 hour break), and had less energy drinks (those things are like $3 a can, and they go through 2-3 of them a shift now again).

The actual poor, are not driving now anyways. A car is a luxury, let it sink in. You can do anything, you just have to try.

I drive 5hours+ per day, so it is not like it wouldn't effect me. Stop whining, and fix it. I know it will never happen especially in an election year...

 

This is one thread that really raises my blood pressure. Over and over I start a comment, only to delete it. Today ... I just may hit "Post Quick Reply."

Some contributors can only see their own personal perspective, and seem to care little for their fellow man, the nation as a whole, or the trials that so many face with meeting basic expenses, getting to work .... or to the unemployment office. Read, even today ... how many are loosing their homes because of foreclosure.

Where is the limit to intervention of one group over another? How many (in one persons opinion) have a home that is larger than needed? How many have yards that require excessive watering, fertilizing? How many set the thermostat too high in the winter and too low in the summer? How many have too many pets? How many have more children that is socially acceptable? How many commute too far? How many have a truck that is not needed for business? How many have RV's? a boat? an airplane? a ATV? How many ............. how many ................. If you have no interest in any of these categories ... raise the taxes on those that have that interest! Raise fees to use! There is no limit to what penalties we can inflict ...... on all those that have interest that are contrary to ours.

The ONLY problem I have discovered with the Prius .... is the association with a group .......... that seemingly cares nothing about others; that seem to talk down America; that finds fault with life styles that are not consistent with their own.

Don't waste your time flaming me ... I shall not return this way for some time.

 

Just think about it. If we took away women's right to drive how much cleaner the environment would be. Plus unemployment would go down if women would just stay in the house and raise children

OK, I know that would be wrong, but somehow some of you want to take away even more rights. How about a gas tax paying for cars, gas, and their associated government costs. No that is too complicated, we need a huge one like europe because they are so much better than the us, and we need to tax engine size like asia because really they are superior too.

Bisco, didn't mean to add the rant to your post, but its amazing how judgmental and controlling people want to be. It just had a good segway, another thing people buy that is just wrong. Just walk and stop being a burden on the heath care system

Ok rant over.