ABG: Chevy Volt completes 1776-mile Freedom Drive in just 3 days; EVs can't match that

If you have been following this, and other threads, I think you will find that there are many questions about the Volts performance in CS mode. GM certainly has not revealed much in that area.

I personally thhought the Leaf chart was very revealing. I am enjoying reading others comments regarding what it all means. It clearly illustrates that there are ramifications of climate, topography, stop and go traffic .... which, at least to my mind, all of which will imapct CS operation.

I could care less if any vehicle can go 90 mph ... that is not a criteria I have any interest in ... but clearly, and certainly, going 90 mph will extract a tremendous amount of power from other power consuming devices.

BTW, thank for your comment.

 

It does not matter if the car will go 90 mph. It does matter how well it accelerates from highway cruising speed to highway passing speed, and apparently the Volt will do that poorly. One of the ways my Prius completely out-performs my old Civic was that the Civic, which would do 80 mph happily (I was scared to ever try to go faster) took a long time to accelerate from 55 to 65 in order to pass on a two-lane country highway. The Prius does it in a fraction of the time. The Volt is burdened with a heavy gasoline engine, but is unable to use that engine for added torque when needed. It is inferior to the Leaf because it burns gasoline, and has a much shorter EV range; but it's also inferior to the Prius because the ICE in the Volt cannot do anything but supply electricity to the electric motor.

 

That's the point of a series-parallel hybrid. You get the best of both worlds.

Taking advantages of strengths from being able to switch & combine abilities is the key.

With a series hybrid, there isn't a choice available.
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The problem I forsee is you are driving in EV mode and the battery is nearing depletion (the ICE is stone cold)(pun) and you suddenly need additional power (to climb a hill, or to avoid a runaway truck ... whatever). The ICE responds and starts (series or parallel series --- whatever) because the ICE is cold, it needs a few moment to warm the oil and the pollution system ... all the while full power is not available ... and you are emitting pollution.

GM has not been fortchcoming with any information how these issues will be handled .... just BS about 230 mpg and 1776 mile trip.

 

Maybe they'll just keep the ICE idling all the time so it's warm and ready to go.

 

The ICE will fire up long before the battery is fully discharged - there will be plenty of time for the ICE to get going and start generating plenty of juice.

If the Volt is lacking performance at highways speeds, it's because of either gearing (motors tend to run out of steam at high RPMs) and/or power.

Everyone bashing the Volt should note that the Leaf has similar reports of reduced acceleration capabilities at highway speeds and everyone also knows that the Prius is limited in it's EV capabilities and that the engine is sluggish to respond to full throttle acceleration.

 

The hybrid engine doesn't need to respond like a traditional design.

What's needed for Volt ?
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Only recently Nissan has started allowing test drives on highways, so we don't really have much to go by. But this is what they say ...

"Nissan Leaf EV: First drive" by Maynard's Garage

 

Thus burning even more gasoline than would otherwise be necessary; which is of course what GM wants: this is a gasoline car, built to burn gasoline, because GM's in bed with Big Oil.

The Prius is not an EV. It was never intended to operate as an EV except for very short distances. As for being sluggish, that's not my experience: My 2004 Prius moves like a sonofabitch if I floor the pedal. Sure, it's not a muscle car, but it wastes no time accelerating, whether from a standstill, or from highway speed to passing speed.

Note that series hybrid is great for freight trains, where loads are fairly uniform and acceleration is not an issue. It's poor for cars, where you want hard acceleration for brief periods, and your power demand is light the rest of the time.

 

06 Prius with 110 hp is 3 seconds faster than the Volt with 160hp in 62-79mph passing.

 

Because of the large battery pack, the Volt can be even more "lazy" about firing up the engine. The pack has a huge reserve compared to the Prius.

BS and FUD. Like I just said, the Volt has a huge buffer in the battery - it only uses 8 kWh out of the available 16 kWh - the engine will fire up when it still has 4 kWh of charge left. When it gets there it can make sure that it fires up the engine and starts generating electricity in the most efficient and clean way possible.

You must have a different definition of "sonofabitch" than me, because that is not how I'd describe the throttle response and acceleration on the Prius. Sure, it does fine at lower speeds when it can rely on the electric torque to get going, but when you need full power, it takes it's time revving up the engine to get full steam.

The reason series hybrids work great for freight trains is because electric motors produce maximum torque at 0 RPM. That's the only reason freight trains use that drivetrain. Otherwise it'd be more efficient to drive the wheels directly.

And they do work just fine for fluctuating power demands - as long as you have a decently sized buffer - like the Volt does in it's 16 kWh battery back.

 

As the article noted, this is mainly a pr exercise to dispel some ideas about the volt. It should tell people that are new to these things that a plug-in hybrid can have range like a normal car. It is positioned against the prius for its ev-range and you would expect in charge sustain mode the prius would outperform it. As noted this pr move is mainly positioned against the leaf that would require a separate vehicle.

This is a misconception about series hybrids. A series gas electric hybrid can recharge the battery so that it is available for extra power as needed. The generator does not need to provide peak horsepower, only sustained horsepower plus a safety factor. The question really is gm's implementation of it. Because of carb did they decide not to use enough charging/depletion of the battery pack for fear of failure during warranty. I suspect it will take the car being in normal use for awhile to find out if gm has done a bad design.

Do you know what the times are with the gen II and gen III prius? This gives the volt a slight edge for low speed power, but the prius will likely be much better passing on the highway.

 

My understanding of the Volt is that maximum power to the wheels will be dictated by the electric motor directly connected to the gearing. 90 kW sticks in my head, but I may be wrong. Isn't this about what the Prius G3 can deliver with a non-depleted battery ?

I personally could not care less about passing cars on hills, but I gather some people think it is important.

 

Implementation is still a big unknown for consumer vehicles. The operational criteria is quite different than for industrial machines, especially when cost is factored in.

We want to know specifics about GM's design, how problems like emission requirements were dealt with.

Just because a series hybrid can do something well in general, does not mean it does the same for personal transportation.
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Exhibit A: the GM hybrid

 

I timed 7 seconds for 62-79mph in my Gen2. Since I don't have Gen3, maybe you can time it? 24 hp extra should lower it close to 6 seconds.

 

Yes, it can. But what I've read is that the Volt does not. This is a major shortcoming.

 

The way the Volt is priced, and it's long development time, you have to suspect the seriousness of GMs intentions. After all, they had a hybrid on the test market in California, and destroyed it for political reasons.

When the Obama people took over GM, I figured that would turn GM green. But I have my doubts now, since Obama hasn't shown the kind of leadership he was elected for.
No Roosevelt for sure, Teddy or Franklin.

The car companies are going to sell mainly ICE cars for a few more years, and gas prices will hover where they are now...

 

there has been a ton of discussion over the passing ability of the Prius and most find it surprising ample. why we are discussing this is another matter. facts are, some will do the Volt because they need the extended range, some will do the Leaf because they dont want to burn gas, not even a drop.

since we still dont really know what the long range performance of the Volt is and its glaring omission of MPG figures on this 1700 mile trip pretty much implies that it is nothing to write home about which means that it did not because it can not, unless it drives a distance significantly less than the range of the Leaf, beat the Prius's gas mileage estimates

so, lets see, what you think?? 45 mpg?? nah, GM would be bragging over that one. i think it more like 38-40... iow
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LOSER~~~

 

See, that's the problem: Obama did NOT take over GM. The U.S. government bought a controlling share, and then declined to put its own people on the board. The racist/idiot/lunatic fringe accuses Obama of being a socialist, but he's always been a moderate. He favors a strong social safety net, but he's a hard-line capitalist, as is everyone in government in the U.S. This means he (like the rest of out government) subscribes to the notion that government should not be involved in business. So he never "took over" GM. We just bailed GM out, left the same people in charge, and allowed them to continue collecting obscene salaries and benefits.

Note that when GM went bankrupt, it got out of its obligations to its workers, and its liability for its toxic waste sites, but it steadfastly maintained its "obligations" to its executives.

My guess is 30 mpg and sluggish in CS mode.