03' Classic Prius and scanguageII

Thanks Tom, no hurry. I meant to attach the pinout for your reference in case you need it.

Thanks Bob, your suspicion is logical. I was thinking of pin 15, L line, which is optional. Anyway, we will get more clues when Tom post his findings.

 

The maintenance manual indicates the NHW11 diagnostic bus has these signals:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3
0	pin	wire	signal
1	4	bare	chassis ground
2	5	dark blue	signal ground
3	7	yellow	Bus Lined/Plus Gen
4	13	white	Tc - tied to CG (chassis ground) flashes two-digit codes
5	14	brown	Ts - tied to CG clears codes
6	16		Battery voltage

Toyota maintenance manual

I have a male solder tail and female pig-tail and will make a pig-tail adapter for the AE ProLine. I should have results before the end of the week. This addresses the Layer 1 problem and hopefully will solve the 'spiking' problem.

Bob Wilson

 

Perfect!

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5
0	pin	wire	signal
1	2		add +SAE-J1850 (clock? arbitration state?)	L-line
2	4	bare	chassis ground
3	5	dark blue	signal ground
4	7	yellow	Bus Lined/Plus Gen	H-ISO9141	K-line[/B]
5	10		add -SAE-J1850 (clock? state?)
6	13	nc	Tc - tied to CG (chassis ground) flashes two-digit codes
7	14	nc	Ts - tied to CG clears codes
8	15		add -Bus lined/Plus Gen	L-ISO9141	L-line[/B]
9	16	red	Battery voltage

Toyota maintenance manual and w2co

I misunderstood an earlier report that this was RS-232 like. Instead, I have a better understanding that only pins 7 and 15 were needed, the ISO 9141-2 lines.

I tested my adapter this morning but it only had the K-line of ISO9141. The Ts and Tc lines were disconnected. When I say it didn't work, it failed to connect but there was one success. It didn't 'spike' the Prius and induce false codes!

I also added a subminature jack to the connector shell and will wire up CG and Ts and Tc to the audio jack pins. This will allow a three-state toggle or two push-to-make switches and mini jack to work as the two-code flashing unit.

FYI, I reverted to the manual configuration and drove into work, ~25 minutes, without a hang or data problem. In the past, I always had a 2-3 minute data capture before the first pause and a 15 minute data capture before the second pause.

LATE THOUGHT: Looking at the datasheets for several ISO 9141 drivers, I may only need one additional signal called "ISO L-LINE". This is likely to be pin 15, ISO 9141, L-line . I'll test it tonight.

Bob Wilson

 

The more I look at the interface circuits, the more it looks as if the L-line is not clock but just a line to indicate the bus is active. One stinkin' wire and my adapter probably would have worked.

I found a Radio Shack part, 275-711, a center off, single-pole, double throw, switch that will be perfect for the Ts and Tc control. This looks to be a seriously useful addition to the OBD shell. TONIGHT!

Since I will be adding the switch and cable, adding the L-line of ISO 9141 should complete the project, the brass board.

Bob Wilson

 

OK, I made a custom adapter since only pin 1,6,7 & 8 are all that is needed. I've also added a 9V battery connector to supply power for offline editing/recording. There is a diode at Pin 8 to prevent the 12V from charging the 9V battery during plugging in the battery.

 

Just a thought but how about incorporating the functions of the Toyota 'SST' tool that uses Tc and Ts to 'flash' two-digit codes and clear codes?

Nothing more than a simple jumper to ground, this might provide a rapid fix.

Bob Wilson

 

Hi Tom,

I've no experience either.

Looking back at post #30, TexomaEV can read out 3006 & 3021 so I believe it is not limited to CAN bus. However, there is another DTC 1800 which is not documented in the repair manual so I wonder whether the DTC can be trusted?

 

Hi Bob,

I 've thought about that too but the SGII cable doesn't use pin 13 which means I can't modify at the RJ45 end, it has to be at the J1962 end. It is not easy to find OBDII socket and plug in Singapore, that is why I dropped the idea and went with RJ45 socket and LAN cable which I 've on hand.

 

I've clipped the connection to #6 & #14 on the Scangauge II's cable, and so far, no more weird codes have popped up. I still need to install the momentary toggle switch to those pins to gnd though.

 

After experimenting with more PIDs, I discovered a problem when monitoring 2 PIDs with the same [RXF] even though the [TXD] are different.

Let's look at an e.g.:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7	Column 8
0	XGauge	TXD	RXF	RXD	MTH	NAME	Notes
1	HV Battery Voltage	8216F101D1	044105D1	2808	000200010000	btV	XXX Volts
2	Battery Temperature	Sensor 4	82D5F101D1	044105D1	2808	00010001FFD8	TS4	+/- XX °C

The display can show 4 gauges at a time. The sequence of display seems to be as below:

(1) Top Left (First)
(2) Top Right
(3) Bottom Left
(4) Bottom Right (Last)

If both the above gauges were to be selected, e.g. (2)btV & (3)TS4, only the one at the top of the sequence (2) get displayed, the other one (3) will be blank. However, since (3)TS4 has sent a request to the Battery ECU ($D5), a response from ($D5) will be received by SGII ($F1). When SGII use [RXF] to filter the responses, the 4th byte ($41) and the 5th byte ($D1) also matches the [RXF] of (2)btV. Since (2) is at the top of the scanning sequence, the data for TS4 get wrongly displayed at (2). As a result, the data at (2) starts to toggle rapidly between the actual data and the wrong data.

Now, let's say I change (1) to display TS4. Since (1) is at the top of the scanning, (1) will start to toggle rapidly and (2) will be blank.

To overcome this limitation, I 've reprogrammed all the [RXF] to add a 3rd criteria for the responding ECU.

HV ECU ($16)

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7
0	XGauge	TXD	RXF	RXD	MTH	NAME	Notes
1	Engine Coolant Temperature	8216F10105	031604410505	2808	00010001FFD8	°CWT	+/- XX °C
2	Engine Coolant Temperature	8216F10105	031604410505	2808	00090005FFD8	°FWT	+/- XX °F
3	Engine Speed	8216F1010C	03160441050C	2810	000100040000	RPM	XXXX rpm
4	Vehicle Speed	8216F1010D	03160441050D	2808	000100010000	KPH	XXX kmh
5	Vehicle Speed	8216F1010D	03160441050D	2808	000A00100000	MPH	XXX mph
6	Intake Air Temperature	8216F1010F	03160441050F	2808	00010001FFD8	°CIA	+/- XX °C
7	Intake Air Temperature	8216F1010F	03160441050F	2808	00090005FFD8	°FIA	+/- XX °F
8	Distance traveled with MIL on	8216F10121	031604410521	2810	000100010000	DML	XXXXX km
9	Distance traveled with MIL on	8216F10121	031604410521	2810	000A00100000	DML	XXXXX miles
10	MG2 RPM	8216F101C2	0316044105C2	2810	000100010000	M2R	+/- XXXX rpm
11	MG2 Torque	8216F101C2	0316044105C2	3810	000100010000	M2T	+/- XXX Nm
12	Regen Brake Execution Torque	8216F101C3	0316044105C3	2808	000A00100000	reT	XXX Nm
13	Regen Brake Request Torque	8216F101C3	0316044105C3	3008	000A00100000	rrT	XXX Nm
14	MG1 RPM	8216F101C4	0316044105C4	2810	000100010000	M1R	+/- XXXX rpm
15	MG1 Torque	8216F101C4	0316044105C4	3810	000100010000	M1T	+/- XXX Nm
16	Request Engine Power	8216F101C5	0316444105C5	2810	000100010000	Pe	XX.XX kW
17	Target Engine Revolution	8216F101C6	0316044105C6	2810	000100010000	ter	XXXX rpm
18	Engine Speed (similar to RPM)	8216F101C7	0316044105C7	2810	000100010000	rpm	XXXX rpm
19	Master Cylinder Control Torque	8216F101C8	0316044105C8	2810	000100010000	mcT	- XXX Nm
20	State-of-Charge	8216F101C9	0316844105C9	2808	00C800330000	soC	XX.X %
21	WOUT Control Power	8216F101CA	0316844105CA	2808	0010000A0000	Pwo	XX.X kW
22	WIN Control Power	8216F101CA	0316844105CA	3008	0010000A0000	Pwi	XX.X kW
23	Drive Situation ID	8216F101CC	0316044105CC	2808	000100010000	dID	0 : Engine stopped
24							1 : Engine about to be stopped
25							2 : Engine about to be started
26							3 : Engine operated or operating
27							4 : Generating power or load driving
28							6 : Revving up in P position
29	MG1 Inverter Temperature	8216F101CD	0316044105CD	2808	00010001FFCE	Ti1	+/- XX °C
30	MG1 Inverter Temperature	8216F101CD	0316044105CD	2808	00090005FFC6	Ti1	+/- XX °F
31	MG2 Inverter Temperature	8216F101CD	0316044105CD	3008	00010001FFCE	Ti2	+/- XX °C
32	MG2 Inverter Temperature	8216F101CD	0316044105CD	3008	00090005FFC6	Ti2	+/- XX °F
33	MG1 Temperature	8216F101CE	0316044105CE	2808	00010001FFCE	TM1	+/- XX °C
34	MG1 Temperature	8216F101CE	0316044105CE	2808	00090005FFC6	TM1	+/- XX °F
35	MG2 Temperature	8216F101CE	0316044105CE	3008	00010001FFCE	TM2	+/- XX °C
36	MG2 Temperature	8216F101CE	0316044105CE	3008	00090005FFC6	TM2	+/- XX °F
37	Motor Current V	8216F101CF	0316044105CF	2810	000100010000	M2v	+/- XXX A
38	Motor Current W	8216F101CF	0316044105CF	3810	000100010000	M2w	+/- XXX A
39	Generator Current V	8216F101D0	0316044105D0	2810	000100010000	M1v	+/- XXX A
40	Generator Current W	8216F101D0	0316044105D0	3810	000100010000	M1w	+/- XXX A
41	HV Battery Voltage	8216F101D1	0316044105D1	2808	000200010000	btV	XXX V
42	HV Battery Current	8216F101D2	0316044105D2	2810	000200010000	BTA	+/- XXX A
43	Shift Sensor 2	8216F101D3	0316844105D3	2810	000100050000	spS	P : approx. 0.5 V
44							R : approx. 2.8 V
45							N : approx. 3.4 V
46							D : approx. 4.0 V
47							B : approx. 4.5 V
48	Shift Sensor 1	8216F101D4	0316044105D4	2808	000100010000	spM	P : 1
49							R : 2
50							N : 4
51							D : 8
52							B : 16
53	Acceleration Sensor Main	8216F101D5	0316844105D5	2808	000100050000	acM	X.X V
54	Acceleration Sensor Sub	8216F101D5	0316844105D5	3008	000100050000	acS	X.X V
55	Battery Cell Temperature Max	8216F101D6	0316044105D6	2808	000100010000	Thi	+/- XX °C
56	Battery Cell Temperature Max	8216F101D6	0316044105D6	2808	000900050020	Thi	+/- XX °F
57	Battery Cell Temperature Min	8216F101D6	0316044105D6	3008	000100010000	Tlo	+/- XX °C
58	Battery Cell Temperature Min	8216F101D6	0316044105D6	3008	000900050020	Tlo	+/- XX °F
59	Vehicle Speed (Similar to KPH)	8216F101D7	0316044105D7	2808	000200010000	kph	XXX kmh
60	Vehicle Speed (Similar to MPH)	8216F101D7	0316044105D7	2808	000500040000	mph	XXX mph

Battery ECU ($D5)

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7
0	XGauge	TXD	RXF	RXD	MTH	NAME	Notes
1	State-of-Charge	82D5F10191	03D584410591	2808	000A00020000	soc	XX.X %
2	Main Battery low	82D5F10197	03D504410597	2810	000100010000	nlo	XXXXX
3	No. of Battery DTCs	82D5F1019C	03D50441059C	2810	000100010000	#TC	XXXXX
4	HV Battery Current	82D5F101A3	03D5044105A3	2810	00010064FF80	btA	+/- XXX A
5	HV Battery Current (for <100A only)	82D5F101A3	03D5844105A3	2810	0001000AFB00	bta	+/- XX.X A
6	Battery Block 1 Voltage	82D5F101A4	03D5444105A4	2810	000100010000	V01	XX.X V
7	Battery Block 2 Voltage	82D5F101A4	03D5444105A4	3810	000100010000	V02	XX.X V
8	Battery Block 3 Voltage	82D5F101A5	03D5444105A5	2810	000100010000	V03	XX.X V
9	Battery Block 4 Voltage	82D5F101A5	03D5444105A5	3810	000100010000	V04	XX.X V
10	Battery Block 5 Voltage	82D5F101A6	03D5444105A6	2810	000100010000	V05	XX.X V
11	Battery Block 6 Voltage	82D5F101A6	03D5444105A6	3810	000100010000	V06	XX.X V
12	Battery Block 7 Voltage	82D5F101A7	03D5444105A7	2810	000100010000	V07	XX.X V
13	Battery Block 8 Voltage	82D5F101A7	03D5444105A7	3810	000100010000	V08	XX.X V
14	Battery Block 9 Voltage	82D5F101A8	03D5444105A8	2810	000100010000	V09	XX.X V
15	Battery Block 10 Voltage	82D5F101A8	03D5444105A8	3810	000100010000	V10	XX.X V
16	Battery Block 11 Voltage	82D5F101A9	03D5444105A9	2810	000100010000	V11	XX.X V
17	Battery Block 12 Voltage	82D5F101A9	03D5444105A9	3810	000100010000	V12	XX.X V
18	Battery Block 13 Voltage	82D5F101AA	03D5444105AA	2810	000100010000	V13	XX.X V
19	Battery Block 14 Voltage	82D5F101AA	03D5444105AA	3810	000100010000	V14	XX.X V
20	Battery Block 15 Voltage	82D5F101AB	03D5444105AB	2810	000100010000	V15	XX.X V
21	Battery Block 16 Voltage	82D5F101AB	03D5444105AB	3810	000100010000	V16	XX.X V
22	Battery Block 17 Voltage	82D5F101AC	03D5444105AC	2810	000100010000	V17	XX.X V
23	Battery Block 18 Voltage	82D5F101AC	03D5444105AC	3810	000100010000	V18	XX.X V
24	Battery Block 19 Voltage	82D5F101AD	03D5444105AD	2810	000100010000	V19	XX.X V
25	Lowest Battery Block Voltage	82D5F101AE	03D5444105AE	2810	000100010000	Vlo	XX.X V
26	Lowest Battery Block Number	82D5F101AE	03D5044105AE	3808	000100010000	blo	XX
27	Highest Battery Block Voltage	82D5F101AF	03D5444105AF	2810	000100010000	Vhi	XX.X V
28	Highest Battery Block Number	82D5F101AF	03D5044105AF	3808	000100010000	bhi	XX
29	Battery Inhaling Air Temperature	82D5F101B2	03D5044105B2	2808	00010001FFD8	TBi	+/- XX °C
30	Battery Inhaling Air Temperature	82D5F101B2	03D5044105B2	2808	00090005FFD8	TBi	+/- XX °F
31	Main Battery high	82D5F101B4	03D5044105B4	2810	000100010000	nhi	XXXXX
32	Delta State-of-Charge	82D5F101BC	03D5844105BC	2808	000A00020000	dSC	XX.X %
33	Battery Block 1 Resistance	82D5F101CA	03D5044105CA	2808	000100010000	R01	XX milli-ohms
34	Battery Block 2 Resistance	82D5F101CA	03D5044105CA	3008	000100010000	R02	XX milli-ohms
35	Battery Block 3 Resistance	82D5F101CA	03D5044105CA	3808	000100010000	R03	XX milli-ohms
36	Battery Block 4 Resistance	82D5F101CA	03D5044105CA	4008	000100010000	R04	XX milli-ohms
37	Battery Block 5 Resistance	82D5F101CB	03D5044105CB	2808	000100010000	R05	XX milli-ohms
38	Battery Block 6 Resistance	82D5F101CB	03D5044105CB	3008	000100010000	R06	XX milli-ohms
39	Battery Block 7 Resistance	82D5F101CB	03D5044105CB	3808	000100010000	R07	XX milli-ohms
40	Battery Block 8 Resistance	82D5F101CB	03D5044105CB	4008	000100010000	R08	XX milli-ohms
41	Battery Block 9 Resistance	82D5F101CC	03D5044105CC	2808	000100010000	R09	XX milli-ohms
42	Battery Block 10 Resistance	82D5F101CC	03D5044105CC	3008	000100010000	R10	XX milli-ohms
43	Battery Block 11 Resistance	82D5F101CC	03D5044105CC	3808	000100010000	R11	XX milli-ohms
44	Battery Block 12 Resistance	82D5F101CC	03D5044105CC	4008	000100010000	R12	XX milli-ohms
45	Battery Block 13 Resistance	82D5F101CD	03D5044105CD	2808	000100010000	R13	XX milli-ohms
46	Battery Block 14 Resistance	82D5F101CD	03D5044105CD	3008	000100010000	R14	XX milli-ohms
47	Battery Block 15 Resistance	82D5F101CD	03D5044105CD	3808	000100010000	R15	XX milli-ohms
48	Battery Block 16 Resistance	82D5F101CD	03D5044105CD	4008	000100010000	R16	XX milli-ohms
49	Battery Block 17 Resistance	82D5F101CE	03D5044105CE	2808	000100010000	R17	XX milli-ohms
50	Battery Block 18 Resistance	82D5F101CE	03D5044105CE	3008	000100010000	R18	XX milli-ohms
51	Battery Block 19 Resistance	82D5F101CE	03D5044105CE	3808	000100010000	R19	XX milli-ohms
52	Battery Temperature Sensor 1	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	2808	00010001FFD8	TS1	+/- XX °C
53	Battery Temperature Sensor 1	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	2808	00090005FFD8	TS1	+/- XX °F
54	Battery Temperature Sensor 2	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	3008	00010001FFD8	TS2	+/- XX °C
55	Battery Temperature Sensor 2	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	3008	00090005FFD8	TS2	+/- XX °F
56	Battery Temperature Sensor 3	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	3808	00010001FFD8	TS3	+/- XX °C
57	Battery Temperature Sensor 3	82D5F101D0	03D5044105D0	3808	00090005FFD8	TS3	+/- XX °F
58	Battery Temperature Sensor 4	82D5F101D1	03D5044105D1	2808	00010001FFD8	TS4	+/- XX °C
59	Battery Temperature Sensor 4	82D5F101D1	03D5044105D1	2808	00090005FFD8	TS4	+/- XX °F

 

Rats! You made me read the Scangauge programming manual. Now I somewhat understand the syntax. <GERRRRRR> Do you have any idea how long ago I programmed in hex using toggle switches? . . . 1974!!! And I got a check for $600 for doing it!

Ok, it looks like you figured it out but this is how I see it:

• RXF - needs to have a source ECU identifier that appears to be offset "03" and then match to the second byte of TXD, the destination ECU

This is how I see the corrected entry:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7	Column 8
0	XGauge	TXD	RXF	RXD	MTH	NAME	Notes
1	HV Battery Voltage	8216F101D1	0316044105D1	2808	000200010000	btV	XXX Volts
2	Battery Temperature	Sensor 4	82D5F101D1	03D5044105D1	2808	00010001FFD8	TS4	+/- XX °C

The blue hex in RXF provides the flag to match the response to the data request. This should always be the case:

03zz (RXF first match byte) = 82zzF1 (TXD first hex bytes)
​

In one respect, your PID table provides exactly the data needed to understand how the Auto Enginuity is broke. More importantly, I can now quickly scan their values versus the ones in your table and confirm which ones match.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson

 

Hi Bob,

Thanks for taking the time to lookup the SG manual.

My apologies for leaving out too many details. Pls allow me to explain again.

Let's go back to my e.g.

The original RXF has only 2 criteria:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7
0	Name	RXF	Response String	Offset 1	Match 1	Offset 2	Match 2
1	btV	044105D1	83F11641D18D29	04​	41​	05​	D1​
2	TS4	044105D1	83F1D541D14AA5	04​	41​	05​	D1​

Offset 1 says the 4th byte (starting with the 1st byte being 01) must be 41 (Match 1).
Offset 2 says the 5th byte must be D1.

Since both Match 1 & Match 2 meet the criteria, wrong data are being displayed.

The corrected RXF has a 3rd criteria:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3	Column 4	Column 5	Column 6	Column 7	Column 8	Column 9
0	Name	RXF	Response String	Offset 1	Match 1	Offset 2	Match 2	Offset 3	Match 3
1	btV	0316044105D1	83F11641D18D29	03​	16​	04​	41​	05​	D1​
2	TS4	03D5044105D1	83F1D541D14AA5	03​	D5​	04​	41​	05​	D1​

Now all 3 criteria must be matched so will avoid the previous problem.

One more thing to add. The SG manual also mentions Special RXF values.

When you append extra characters to RXF, it will affect this special values. For e.g.:

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3
0	XGauge	RXF	Remarks
1	State-of-Charge	04418591	Old values
2	State-of-Charge	03D584410591	New values

Pls take note the special characters must remain in the same position.

 

Ah, I see.

So the range of offsets are 0-127 and the upper nibble is used for some other SG specific operation? That clears up one of the RXF fields.

This discussion of SG, my testing of OBD scanners, Auto Enginuity's wretched support and my audio recording of ISO-9141 has got me thinking of a new project:

• Audio based, laptop OBD scanner for ISO-9141 vehicles

A simple set of linear amplifiers, OBD connector, stereo audio input and output could with the right software could become a poor man's OBD scanner. The beauty of this approach is the software could also do a 'survey' scan of a vehicle's OBD. This survey of a range of ECUs combined with a survey of a range of commands followed by any responses would let the vehicle dump the non-stateful status.

Having identified the responding ECUs and their range of values, we can then conduct operational and non-operational tests to find those that change and back-door into decoding what is actually there.

Implemented as 'open source,' we multiply the hands and minds available so we can literally 'take back' the information about the vehicles we own. In theory, it would also be a powerful OBD diagnostic but that is another branch.

Fortunately, I have enough on my plate that this will have to wait. But one last question:

Does the SG allow bi-directional configuration and reading of the settings?

If it does, a program could just use the SG for the interface device and conduct the survey more efficiently than manual programming.

Bob Wilson

 

I wasn't clear.

I don't know how SG programming is done. I was wondering if a program could be written on a laptop that could use the SG as a device to poll different codes and responses . . . a general purpose OBD interface.

Bob Wilson