IL tax credit for Enginer kit

Conversions qualify. It has to be from this year though you have 6 months from the date of the purchase to submit your claim. I just ordered one today. =D (Because Illinois extended the time of which we can apply.)

WOOOHOOO

 

I would do more research on this before assuming it will cover this particular conversion. Has Enginer actually had their system certified by CARB (and I'm not talking about the CARB compliance tax for California buyers, I'm talking about laboratory emissions testing certification)? This rebate requires a copy of the form for CARB compliance.

Also, I was under the impression that this was for electric vehicles and other alternative energy fuels too but did not cover plugin hybrid conversions because for some reason it didn't qualify. I remember there being some discussion as to why it did not cover plugin hybrids in the Illinois legislature, though I could be mistaken...

I would do more research before committing to buy and I would get written approval from Illinois Green Fleet that Enginer is specifically covered.

Andrew

EDIT:

I believe this is the line in question:

"Gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles are not defined as “electric vehicles” and are not eligible for this program since they are primarily operated on and refueled with gasoline. A hybrid vehicle would be eligible if it was designed to run on E85 or other alternate fuel (e.g., not primarily fueled with gasoline)."

I think the reason PHEV's may not qualify is because they are technically still gasoline vehicle's and still use straight up gasoline as a fuel source. It's a little counter intuitive because hypothetically you may not use any gasoline during the calendar year if you only drive really short trips but I think since the car is still classified as a gasoline car it may not qualify.

One might be able to make an argument that PHEVs are primarily fueled with electricity thus they are powered primarily by an alternative fuel, however you could simply just drive your car without ever plugging it in. I would expect that they would have something like "You must plug your vehicle in 50% of the calendar year to qualify" in there if plugin hybrids were covered.

We pressured our local congressman to sponsor legislation to change it so that PHEV's were covered but I don't think (though I could be wrong) that the legislation was ever changed...

Andrew

 

Actually, they can't approve it until after you apply. I know they also approve of other systems as long as they meant a certain criteria. Let me look..

Ok I checked and I see it does need to be approved by CARB or the EPA. I didn't find the info on the website, but the proprieter is great at answering emails. I hope like heck it is, and if not I will still apply for the rebate and keep my fingers crossed. Even without the rebate, this is still a very good price... and currently the only 2010 compatible one.

-Brad

 

Thanks for bringing up these points though!

I think it specifically mentioned converting hybrids to also draw electricity from another source as a fuel. (I hope so.)

I also converted my car to run on e85, but then you are met with the same problem. Is it approved by the EPA or CARB? Nope, I received this response from a more than helpful proprietor of an e85 conversion site:

The IL rebate is for certified conversions. Only one company has obtained a
certification and it is only 1 Chrysler engine and 1 ford engine model year
2007 in fleet use only.

So that is pretty much bust. But hey, I'll apply and keep my fingers crossed! I'm doing it for other reasons than solely financial, though that definitely helps. I feel that it is good for the environment, and keeping things in balance. I like to give back to the earth as I take from it. So, I'll spend some money trying to get more efficient. In addition to that, I love tech crap. HAHA I can't wait to start keeping check on the cells, and plugging this sucker in.
-Brad

 

Ah, ok Jack emailed me back and stated that they are planning on doing the test for the EPA in March or April, which would put me at just the right timing to get my rebate sent out.

He didn't make any promises or guarantees, but gave me his honest intentions and I respect that. So this is all something to keep in mind. The Illinois EPA did give a phone number to call and I think I will just to see if this is even going to be an issue.

-Brad

 

Interesting...I'm pretty sure it needs to have already passed CARB testing at the time of install. Plus, I'm not entirely sure it will pass in it's current form...but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Once Enginer does get CARB testing they are then locked in to that format for the conversion--meaning I believe they can't go changing things like the DC/DC converter or the batteries since they then become part of the vehicle emissions system. Since they can't seem to make up their mind about the converter and batteries I wouldn't be surprised if the testing got delayed?

Andrew

 

Re: IL tax credit for Enginer kit--IMPORTANT!!

Hi Guys,

I called the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency this morning and here is what I learned.

First and most importantly: Plugin hybrid electric conversions of any kind are NOT, I repeat are NOT covered by the 80% Illinois alternative fuel and vehicle tax credit.

By law, the alternative fuel and vehicle tax credit of Illinois cannot provide funding for ANY vehicle that uses unleaded gasoline, no matter how little. Sorry folks. The only way it could possibly qualify would be if you also converted your car to run on E85, but you can forget about doing that with a Prius. It's way too fine tuned.

I had a chat with a woman who works at the EPA and she told me that she would be contacting Enginer to ask them to remove the link. Apparently they have gotten a lot of angry phone calls from people insisting that their Enginer conversion qualifies. According to the person I spoke with, Enginer never contacted them to ask if their system actually qualifies. This would seem to call into question the other tax credit links on their website.

Second: Even if the systems WERE qualifed (and again I repeat they are NOT qualified), all systems would be subject to the same federal testing and regulations that all other tax credits and rebates are required to comply with. This would also seem to cast doubt on the federal tax credit qualifications for non-federally certified conversions.

Third: There is no money left in the alternative fuel vehicle tax credit budget. Apparently it was one of the areas that the Governor decided to sweep funds from...Dirty politics...

Conclusion:
Do NOT expect to qualify for Illinois' 80% alternative fuel vehicle tax credit if you buy a PHEV conversion system. You will be disappointed (and potentially made fun of by people who drive Hummers) if you do. The woman from the EPA told me that the state is looking into possibly adding plugin conversion systems in the future, but this won't be happening any time soon.

Andrew

 

Darnit! Your absolutely right. Somehow I was reading the vehicle rebate. BAH! And what is really annoying is this converting to other fuels,... that part of the rebate the "conversions" can't be done except two models of car. I mean like... literally two cars. I also doubt that there are tractor conversions approved by CARB or the EPA for any fuel, including natural gas or propane vehicles. That is just unbelieveable. It makes me think that they made that portion of the fund JUST to be able to dip into it. OMG makes me so mad!!!

Anyways, it also has to be done in IL and I'm doing this in Madison. I don't care anyways. IL is really p***ing me off because they can be so dumb about things. They don't realize how to get things done. They see something that looks good on paper, then they implement it, the funds don't get used because they make it impossible, then they divert the funds and use it for something else...

I also get really mad at the letters our local electric cooperative sends to us. Begging us to send a postcard back to authorize them to lobby our representation to not make them clean and scrub their coal plant. Then I get a newsletter from the Farm Bureau of which I am a member of, and instead of trying to move forward and make things work to their advantage environmentally they are complaining because they can't keep drenching the fields in anhydrous ammonia and other chemicals.

I just get so upset, because where I am no-one seems to get it. I think global warming is a problem, but that aside this is an air quality issue, and it's about respecting our surroundings and not poisoning ourselves. Sounds like common sense to me.

P.S. I just went geothermal and didn't get my energy rebate from the power company because the company didn't do their paperwork. It is just ridiculous how people behave around here.

 

Well, now I see this line in the rebate: "The Conversion Rebate applies to the cost of converting a conventional gasoline or diesel vehicle to an alternate fuel. A conversion rebate is more appropriate for natural gas, propane, and electric vehicles."

It says and electric vehicles. Do they mean converting the car to exclusive electric? HAHA, well it doesn't matter if the funds to convert the 2 cars are gone. Does this rebate cover hybrids in general? I did buy my car this year. Ughh.... I went to Indiana though. Man, this is just a total headache.

 

If Blagojavich was still around I could slip him a few 20's and maybe get my way... rofl

 

Heh, yeah...ironically things were better for environmental funds when he was governor...Oh well. Maybe someday there will be an Illinois PHEV tax credit.

Andrew

 

Jack apologized and said that he puts news related to green incentives on there.

Not his fault our state is stupid.

 

Bubble bursting

Loved this thread and very glad it was here. I heard about the rebate program through Wikipedia of all places and was curious if it related to the phev conversions as well. It's good to see that answered here.

However, I noticed a few people talking about the fact that they wanted to make the conversion anyways for environmental reasons, and I thought about this for a moment. Illinois gets about 85% (rough figure off the top of my head, might need some fact checking) from coal. The question is, is the coal burnt for your electricity cleaner than the gas you're offsetting? I wager, probably not.

Now does that mean it's still a dumb idea? No, not in the least, if you have solar panels on your home, or you're living in areas (like Peoria) who have large amounts of electricity being generated from wind power, then it's still very clean.

But you might want to call your local provider to see how your electricity is made. Environmental cleanliness may vary...

 

Re: Bubble bursting

Thanks for your comment--you'd be surprised how many people don't think about where the electricity comes from when they buy a PHEV or electric vehicle.

I know you weren't being skeptic of PHEVs in general, but I'd like to throw my two arguments out there anyway. First, I live in an area where I can choose to buy electricity from a wind-powered grid. While it is a little more expensive, it is a practical way to support renewable energy.

Second, for those people who may not have a choice about where their electricity comes from, know this: it is a lot easier to regulate emissions at the smoke-stack of a power plant than it is to regulate at the tailpipe of a vehicle (there are over 300,000,000 cars on the road in the US alone). To that end, I would argue that it /is/ environmentally conscious to buy a car that primarily runs off of an electric grid powered even by dirty fossil fuels because the electricity /could/ be (and I would argue some day will eventually be) generated using zero or partial zero emissions technology (wind, solar, geo-thermal, etc).

Whether or not power plants are made more environmentally friendly is a matter of regulations and technological breakthroughs--but at this point I think our primary concern should be the tailpipe. That's why my car is converted to a PHEV anyway.

Andrew

 

Hi All,

The agressive unfair, and unreasoning way the IL dept of Rev have gone after bio-diesel people, I would not even sign up for this tax rebate. As I would fear getting a knock on the door, and request to post a $2000 tax lien bond as a motor vehicle fuel distributor, since I have a power outlet in my residence.

The electric vehicle can run on the amount of electricity needed to make the gasoline to go the same distance. That electricity to make the gasoline comes from the same location. So, one esentially bypasses the costs/polution of the manufacture and delivery of the gasoline. Power plants are allot more effincient than in converting fossil fuel energy into electricity than even a Prius engine is in converting fossil fuel energy into energy. This covers the electric distribution losses in effect.

The only negative is that power plants generate power with higher CO2 resultant fuels in Illinois (Coal). But, if one adds on the CO2 of the gasoline burning in the chain of Coal to electricity + hydrocarbon to gasoline to CO2 versus Coal to Electricity, its clear that the CO2 is always greater with a gasoline powered vehicle.