Early Oil Change intervals ?

If you have manufacturing stuff and/or metal shavings floating around in your oil then there is something wrong with your filter.

 

I agree with early oil/filter changes, and have always had it performed around 2K miles on all new cars I've owned, to flush out the break-in gunk; and always have subsequent oil/filter services performed at half the recommended interval (so I've done it every 5K miles with synthetic oil).

This topic has been heavily debated--here, and on every other car forum I've visited--so I'd suggest a search if you want...lots...more opinions.

 

Just an informational note to my fellow Prius owners.

My prius came with 4 oil changes to be used in the first year. When I received the revised oil change schedule for a 10,000 mile oil change interval, I had one unused oil change.

I called Toyota customer service and explained that my Prius came with 4 oil changes and I had one left but it will expire because of the new oil change schedule. I asked if they would extend the expiration date of that unused oil change. She understood and extended it for another year. I was really please at how effortless it was to have Toyota address my concerns.

 

I believe your inclination to remove the contaminated oil is not only proper, but extremely smart. This is especially true if your intention is to buy as few new cars in your life by making those you do purcahse last as long as possible.

Metal wear particles cause wear, and they develop from two metal surfaces in contact even with a film of lubricating oil between them. When new engines first begin the process of "Wearing-In" these metal dust and filings are produced in far greater quanities than the engine will produce later on so flushing them sooner is a very wise course of action. New engines, as a consequece of these increased wear particles typically wera as much during the first 5000 miles of use, as they will over the following 50,000 miles of use.

I changed my oil at 323 miles, then again at 2200, then at 4500, and will now change it at 5K using only 100% synthetic oil. With dirt and moisture ever present in the air, I will not be increasing the oil change intervals no matter what Toyota allows. The car cost about 40 grand, so the 50 bucks for oil and the best filter to protect that investment is only smart. Doing it a couple of more times is good money, well spent. Your original inclination was the right one.

Oh, and even the very best oil filters cannot filter below wear particles of 10 microns, and the lesser filters often can'y filter 20 micron sized wear particles from the oil, so the filter matters but is still no substitute for an oil change. the oil change also removes sludge, water, and dirt that the filter can't catch, so again it is a good thing for your expensive New engine.

 

? ? ? is that remark meant to suggest that a new Prius owner is wise to Bet his new motor and 30-40 grand investment on the ten dollar or less oil filter ? ? ?

Better to pay an extra few bucks on maintenance "Above & Beyond" the minimum required, than shorten the life or damage the 30-40 grand cars new motor, I always say. Doing the bare minimum is for people too cheap for their own good. This is why buying someones Used Car is always a gamble, so if you do demand maintenance records backed up with receipts.

 

The proof will be in the proverbial pudding. I just had the 10k oil chnage done, having already done it at 5k. I plan on changing the oil again at 15k and will send a sample off to Blackstone for analysis. Now, I realize that oil analyses typically look for trending where engine wear is concerned. However, a TBN, along with viscosity analysis and fuel/coolant/water saturations will go a very long way towards providing empirical direction as to how we should proceed.

I can tell you, from experience, the V8 engine in my 2004 Phaeton was very safe with a 10,000 mile OCI, based on empirical data from independent laboratory testing (as opposed to manufacturer's recommendations (which, coincidentally also supported a 10k OCI) or heresay/anecdotal information). Now that was also an engine which operated with almost 10 quarts of oil and a filter the size of a 1lb coffee can, so I cannot say this will be the same for the Prius until the analysis has been performed.

 

Yes, you can have your garage do it.

The recommended oil is 0W-20 synthetic--the Toyota brand lists for $6.85/qt at the dealer, and I recall a recent post saying that Mobil 1 was on sale somewhere for ~$5.00 (from memory). you'll need 5 qts (the fill uses 4.5 qts) You'll also need the filter, and gasket.

 

Is it overkill? absolutely. If Toyota had thought that sort of break-in schedule were neccisary they would reccomend it. Modern engines are constucted with such tight tolerances and the machining is so exact that you're not going to have metal shavings or things of that nature to deal with.

However...oil changes are cheap. If it makes you feel better there is only upside and you won't be hurting things by doing changes sooner rather than later.

As for the new 10k oil change interval, I too am "old school" and really feel like the oil needs to be changed more regularly than that. It was hard enough for me to go from 3,000 mile changes to 5,000 mile changes. However, I have seen oil analyses done on oil from engines that have run synthetic fluids for 10k...15k...20k miles without changes and they really are fine. Modern synthetic fluids are very robust.

 

Analyzing the oil by taking a sample (Always a messy Dirty Process best done in your throw away attire), then packaging the bottle of oil, and taking it to the local post office for mailing it to the lab with your payment, for analysis, and then waiting a week or so to see if they recommend that you change it. Been There Done That !:crazy:

10 Qts and maybe its worth it, but a 4.5 qt Prius ? ? ? ? In my opinion, Easier, and probably cheaper just to move up the inevitable unavoidable Oil Change and remove everything, No Analysis Needed.

 

I could have written this myself. I plan to keep my Prius as long as it is still "safe" to drive, so I'd like it to last as long as possible. I also don't want to spend any money I don't have to. I'm betting that the odds of the engine wearing out due to a lack of oil changes and thus being the reason I get rid of the Prius is small. My bet is that the general condition of the car (suspension, body integrity, etc.) will deteriorate to the point that I want to replace it (200,000 miles I'd assume) before any damage done by following the recommended oil change interval causes me to do so.
But I am not entirely rational, so I will do the first change at 5,000 and then 10,000 after that. But my rational mind tells me I am wasting the money I'll be spending on that initial oil change.

 

There is no unit of measurement called a 'micron". I think you mean 'micrometer,' one one-millionth of a meter. 'Micron' is a software company in Silicon Valley CA.

 

To be more precise: There is not anymore a unit of measurement called a "micron". This name has been retired from the SI in 1968 ([ame=http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micron]Micromètre - Wikipédia[/ame]).

 

Here we go again, fanatical wasting of the planet's resources.
10k oil change with fully sythetic 0W20 oil recommended - stick to it !
Save some oil for your children and your childrens' children and generations to come. Stop guzzling the oil for your own selfishness.

 

If its synthetic oil...then it is just that...synthetic. It isn't oil that is derived from the earth. The supply is as limitless as is our ability to create it.

 

I'm going to provide an alternative view. I'm after two goals; 1) Make the car engine last the life of the car and 2) Waste as little oil as possible. First I change the oil at ~5000miles. This is not to get rid of "contaminated oil" so much as to establish my UOA monitoring baseline early in engine life. The composition of the Japanese oil is radically different with lots more copper and molybdenum than the long life synthetic I use. (Note - From many new car UOA results, the initial oil does not have much wear metal at all, what there is a lot of is silicon-e.g. dirt! The engine quality is great. The factory it is put together has lots of dust that creeps in during initial assembly.) From that baseline I follow the oil manufacturer's guide not to exceed 15 -20k miles....as long as the intervening 5 to 10 kmile UOAs do not show any deterioration. My primary limitation has been an occasional increase in fuel contamination starting to occur after 10k miles in some cases, not engine wear or oil breakdown.

One thing I have learned is that going with very long oil change intervals in excess of 10k miles should only be done with UOA monitoring. This is not because the oil wears out, but that holes in the air filter, fuel leaks into the oil, and other extremely rare problems are too easy to catch with a UOA.

My engines are healthy, I dump very little oil prematurely, and I have proof (proof in the engineering sense, not necessarily the legal sense.)

 

That's a typo, right?

Who on planet earth follows such an oil change interval??

My folks bought new - in Canada - a non emission Ford F-150 to drive from their summer home in NW Ontario, to their winter home in St George UT. My dad used to be in the heavy equipment business, and knows how to look after motors

First oil change was at 4,000 miles, he refilled with a heavy duty diesel engine oil in 15W-40 viscosity. From that point on, he would only change the oil filter every 6 months, the oil itself every year or two

When they sold the winter home in 1997, that truck had 528,000 km on it, and the motor ran like new. I still have the truck, it's a great hobby vehicle

Intake manifold gasket was seeping in 2000, I had to pull the intake to put in new gaskets. Lifter valley was spotless, underside of the intake where the EGR crossover is, spotless. Compression still 145 lbs in all 8

That motor never had more than 20 oil changes its entire life, runs fine and no oil consumption. That tells me it has a lot more to do with the oil quality than fanatical change intervals

How about the Prius used as taxi's, especially here in Winnipeg which is a climate that dips to -40 in winter? Those Prius are lucky if they see an oil change every 5,000 miles, and almost always its with whatever is the cheapest oil they can find

The Prius used as taxi service are usually written off in crashes before that motor wears out

Not sure how YOU sample your oil, but here is how I sample MY oil:





Tube goes into the pump, other end goes into the dipstick. Give the pump a few pumps to make a vacuum, watch the oil magically get sucked out into the bottle.

Total time, around 2 mins. You could wear a business suit and not get dirty

The rationale to sample oil is to determine the health of the motor and of the oil. Say you have a slow gasket leak, how would you catch it otherwise? You could change the oil and filter daily and still end up with coolant sludge in the motor

 

I should add that oil analysis proved what crap oil my dealership was using

Used oil analysis also proved that the factory oil in my FJ was completely worn out at only 3,000 km. For whatever reason, that 4 litre V6 is hard on oil.

Insane that Toyota allows a 5W-20 or 0W-20 in that motor. The oil will quickly load up with nitration and thicken to a heavy 30 range anyway

So based on used oil analysis, I discovered that only the made in Germany Castrol Syntec 0W-30, and the Mobil 1 European Car Formula 0W-40, hold up in that motor, even beyond 7,000 miles. But run a conventional 5W-30, you're lucky to break 3,000 miles before TBN is zero

 

Micron is still used in various scientific journals and by scientists when giving talks, easier to say "micron" than "micrometer."