Be careful

I think I shall recommend to Danny we start a completely separate sub-forum under the Gen III forum for braking issues. These threads are now starting to take over the forum like kudzu.

 

No need for a subforum, since there's no problem.......

 

I guess I'll be the one to say it this time.

The "surge forward" or feeling of acceleration is your perception of a temporary decrease in deceleration as the regenerative brakes switch to friction brakes. If a fraction-of-a-second decrease in deceleration is causing you problems, you should start braking sooner.


V V V V

Emergency braking bypasses regenerative braking and goes straight to friction brakes.

 

A lot of people that defend The Prius and the braking "issue" always default to "change your driving, braking habits" or "Just be careful".

Fine...but if there are circumstances that significantly change how The Automobile brakes...and can "catch you off guard" how can it simultaneously be something that is not a problem as long as you are aware of it?

Driving an automobile...any automobile...is reacting to changes in your enviroment at different rates...influenced by weather, speed, road conditions and the random acts of drivers around you.

Can anyone say that they are able to drive constantly in a state and condition where emergency braking will never be necessary? Or that they can always know exactly what the immediate and approaching road conditons are going to be...even for a small maybe unseen patch?

Driving and braking involves numerous almost subconcious decisions to be made between, mind, body and machine. Braking is sometimes implemented under less than ideal circumstance and often in emergency or vital circumstance. To expect that people are always going to be able to predict and thus adjust to brakes that may or may not behave consistently...is not fair.

It's not the 999 times you approach an intersection and The Prius brakes 99% like a "normal" vehicle that matters. It's the 1000th time you approach the intersection and unexpectedly find yourself 3 feet further out past where you wanted to stop because the brakes for whatever unexpected reason don't behave as they usually do, that is going to matter.

I don't know, it wouldn't stop me from buying a Prius...but I do think there is an issue, and I hope future incarnations of Prius have improved design.

I don't think this is an easy fix. But it becomes even more difficult to fix if a majority of people are going to go to ignore the problem and simply "fix it"...by saying nothing needs to change.

 

If it's that bad I'd double check that the brake update recall was actually done on your car!

I had the surge occur to me a couple of times before the recall and it was exactly as you described. It almost feels like you've been rear ended. Since the update I've never experienced it - yet, and have covered many many more miles.

Whilst on this subject, is there any way to check that the dealers have actually updated the brakes other than going to the dealers?

 

how many miles per hour did you increase during your surge?

 

Smirv you're 100% right about knowing your car and adjusting your driving to match it characteristics.

I've driven RWD my whole life and this car is my first FWD.

Last winter I learned very quickly that FWD's perform completely different than RWD's in certain braking and cornering situations.

I didn't log on and say what a lousy car the Prius is in the winter.
In some ways it is better than the car it replaced and in some ways it doesn't perform as well in the snow. Doesn't make it a problem car it just is a different driving experience.

To many people get themselves into bad situations due to driving too fast for conditions and instead of blaming themselves it becomes a problem with the car.

I had the brake problem in mine and like almost every other member on the board I adjusted my driving to the quirk. I had the software updated and 90 plus percent of the original problem is gone.

 

Hi EM -

I understand what you are saying (I think--I hope I don't come off as though I'm trying to put words in your mouth), and I'm not Toyota's (or anyone's) apologist. I've experienced the issue, I believe it was real, the first couple of times I experienced it it was indeed disconcerting, and I'm glad Toyota issued a fix for it. (Whether or not it renders the brakes identical to those of other cars, or perfect, or good enough, is a different issue.) I also agree that when so many people are experiencing what they legitimately perceive to be a problem, it doesn't really do anyone any good to handle it by saying it doesn't exist.

But a central issue remains: All cars are different. In multiple ways. The regenerative brakes on a Prius-type hybrid are going to behave fundamentally differently under some circumstances from those on others (non-hybrids). But where does one draw the line in terms of what constitutes a reasonable expectation on the part of the driver, with respect to braking or other characteristics of an automobile? I went from an RSX to the Prius, and a few weeks after getting it, took a trip through the mountains of Virginia (yeah, yeah, they're not quite like the ones you have out there in OR, but they're still nice, and haven't erupted in hundreds of millions of years ). The handling was by far a bigger difference and bigger issue than the braking. I knew this going into the deal, in the same way anyone would know a Miata can stop faster than a school bus. Still, I had a couple eye-opening experiences on tight downhill turns on that trip. Nothing bad happened, but if it had, would it have been because of a design flaw in the Prius? My point is, I see it as *my* responsibility to adapt, rather than to expect the Prius to handle like an RSX. If I'm driving in an area with terrain as described above, and especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area, I need to be prepared, to expect the unexpected, so to speak.

Again, the question, where does one draw the line? Perhaps braking is a fundamentally different issue than handling (personally I don't think so), but if so then should a Cadillac DeVille be considered a 'dangerous' car because it cannot stop on a dime like a Corvette? Again, I'm glad Toyota did the reca^^^ er, ah, 'scuse me there, the SSC-AOB thing, and it could be argued that Toyota should do more to educate its customers that the regenerative braking can be different, but, IMO, the motorist must also take some responsibility. Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
Tim

 

:deadhorse:

What is the purpose of starting zillion threads on the same topic and discuss the exact same thing in all of them?

 

And I still think the problem has been pretty much solved since the update/recall.

Are you sure the dealer carried out the update to your brakes? Other than their word, how can you make sure they've carried it out?

 

i've adjusted my driving style to take care of these problems...

it really comes down to this: in any other car, touching the brakes really does slow down the car fast.. at every occasion you try to slow down.

with the prius you have to anticipate and that gets rather annoying.

when i drive my gf's mini, it feels like it stops a LOT faster than my prius with minimal effort when in my prius i have to really apply the brakes. then again.. i've yet to do a brake recall because i don't have notices for it.

it would be nice to touch the brakes and feel a decent deceleration...

i wouldn't go as far as saying adjust your style.. or drive safer... brakes are supposed to stop you asap.. not when they feel like.

i was in an accident almost a month ago (car is still in the shop) i slowed down before our cars met bumpers (more like my hood and his bumper) ... i slammed on my brakes but it didn't feel as if the car really started to slow down... shrug... well.. until we collided.. then i felt like a crash test dummy.

 

Does this mean your braking anomaly occurred at strong emergency-like braking force, not the light or moderate regen-only braking force where many of us believe the usually braking 'problem' lies?

If so, you are experiencing something different, and we need as much detail as possible.

 

I wish every time a thread started on brakes they would move it to one topic. I think this is thread number 300 on my car surged forwarded on loose gravel.