Our Solar Electric Panels: Done!

Way to go Hill!!! Just wait till the Summer, that sucker will be spnning backwards so fast that you will hear the scream of the disk as it rotates anticlockwise!!!

I went online August 2004, and have generated over 65,000 kWh to date.

What size system did you put in, and whats your out of pocket expense after taking into account your rebates etc?


73 de Pat KK6PD

 

Congrats,

Check the kwh usage of those fridges though,,, if they are older, they are pigs. Have fun. It is pretty cool isn't it?

Icarus

 

Congrats.

I got a bigger inverter so I can add panels later. No where near as big as yours.

Yes, you have to be grid tied to get the tax rebates. But....once you've got everything installed, if at any time in the future you want to go off grid...it's a lot easier.

I used to go out and look at the wheel go backwards every few days after mine was installed. But more to make sure it was actually working that just a thrill. I didn't trust the installer.

 

Watching the meter spin backwards is really mesmerizing. I must have done it for 3 months before I lost the fascination with it. These days the solar panels get hosed off maybe twice a year, and other than that, ignored. Oh, and every May I have to pay the balance on my electric bill. Last year I think I paid about $175 for the electricity beyond what the panels produced.

One thing that is really educational is watching the meter when an electrical appliance cycles on or off. Say the meter is spinning fast backwards, and my wife turns on the electric oven. Whoa... Fast backward to fast forward. That oven eats everything the panels can put out and way more. The old refrigerator could stop a fast backward spin, and make the spin slow forward. The old refrigerator is history, and the new one hardly makes a noticeable difference on the meter. Air conditioning is another big hit.

Oh, another fun thing to watch is the power output as the sun goes behind a cloud and back into the clear. If everything is just right, there are situations where the clouds produce a magnifying glass effect. I've seen the power output hit the limit for the inverter (actually, about 100 watts over the panel limit). Then the cloud covered the sun and the output tanked.

I've got a low voltage (48V nominal) system with 6 strings of 4 panels each (120 watt panels). There is an ammeter on each string, so I can watch how the panels vary. In winter my neighbor's TV antenna shadow walks across two of the strings, and just totally tanks the output of each string. The shadow can't be covering more than 5% of the area, but the output drops 90%. Wow. An inverter per panel design would yield a lot more power than the current style of using a single large inverter for the full system. But the current economics dictate the large inverter design. How much should it cost for a 100 watt wall wart design? In volume it's got to be a $25 device, but it sure isn't now. Better yet, how about an inverter per cell. Etch it on the back of the silicon cell.

 

Yeah I had that feeling too, and since I am a lazy TV engineer, when we did the Breaker Panel upgrade I installed a small J box and plumbed some conduit and then installed a tiny video camera on a gooseneck and aimed it at the meter, plumbed the video line into the house and it dumps out at the dedicated computer station for Solar Monitoring! Some day I wil get even LAZIER and run a feed to Video In 4 of the BIG screen system!

I still gotta wash mine every week, Just too much damn dust around here, thank's neighbors, and Caltrans!!

I took Icarus's advice, went GREEN GREEN GREEN New Refrigerator, and Fluorescent bulbs. I just replaced the Furnace and Compressor. Went from a 6.5 amps draw on the furnace blower motor to 1.25 amps.! The compressor has a equally efficient motor, SWEET!! Buy yourself a Kill-A-Watt meter, and go around the house and you can figure who is the biggest power pig in the home. I have a couple, and am constantly monitoring and looking for ways to consume less and less power

Check out the fllowing URL...

http://www.sandiego.edu/epic/publications/documents/070123_SSCAPaperFINAL_001.pdf

It is the California Solar Shade Act. You may be able to get your neighbor to relocate his antenna, explain your situation, show him the meters, offer to help with the move, and if you really want t make it happen, show him the CSSA paper. There was a case that was just recently won by a home owner somewhere east of San Francisco, who asked his neigbor to trim the trees, NO, offered to help pay, NO, made several other gestures to inoke cooperation, NO,NO,NO. He then dropped the the Solar Shade Act on him and they ended up in court. The result was the tree owner lost the case, had to pay court costs, and pay for REMOVAL of the offending trees! WOW, nobody expected that to happen. There are now several other municipalties that are also invoking the Act!

I just got my power bill for the last 2 months, since its winter, I paid $200, next bill it will be about $100 and then spring, longer sun, and we go into the BLACK bigtime thru the summer!

All right the rest of you, go solar. go now!!!

73 de Pat KK6PD

 

KK6PD,

I'm honored! I am constantly amazed how often people will spend 10s of thousands on PV but won't replace the garage fridge with a $500 replacement. Better yet, can the extra fridge,, most garage fridges hold nothing but pop and beer. Put a couple in the house fridge and un plug that sucker!

RobH,

Edge of cloud events can peg the output! In my little off grid system, a cold (-20 day) lots of snow for reflection and a great edge of cloud, and my system will put out almost 3 times it rate amperage! (In off grid, you have to watch you charge controller sizing as a result.

Icarus

 

There's a possibility that antennae may go after the digital TV switch in February.

There's also the possibility that it's not being used at all and the neighbor simply can't afford to have it removed. When I moved into my house there was a huge pole outside the dining room window with an antennae on the top. The house had cable and had had cable for quite some years. No one wanted to pay to remove the pole. I did when I bought the place. But it cost me over $100.00. It had to be sawn off and it was removed in sections from the top down. The large concrete block it was imbedded in is still there, under a few inches of dirt. I'm limited as to what I can plant in that area. Alyssum does very well.

If the antennae isn't being used you could offer to pay for it's removal. It may or may not be able to be relocated but that is also an option.

I sure hope you don't end up in court.

 

I'd like to revive this thread as I am seriously considering the installation of a solar electric system since there is no lack of sunshine here in southern Arizona. I've attached a couple of datasheets that provide info on the system that was quoted to me.

The contractor has suggested a 3.6 kW system occupying 16 panels and estimates this will produce 6,800 kWh annually, which is about my annual power consumption.

Considering the local utility rebate, the 30% Federal income tax credit and the AZ state income tax credit, the deal appears financially compelling with payback in ~6 years.

Any comments?

 

6 years? seems like a no brainer! and less if rates go up.

 

The contractor has suggested a 3.6 kW system occupying 16 panels and estimates this will produce 6,800 kWh annually, which is about my annual power consumption.

Considering the local utility rebate, the 30% Federal income tax credit and the AZ state income tax credit, the deal appears financially compelling with payback in ~6 years.

Patrick: "Sunpower" - good choice! I live in SaddleBrooke (north Tucson) and had Sunpower panels installed last fall. Their performance has exceeded my expectations. I assume that your installer is T.F.S. It may be too late, but Sunpower has a referral program that can net both of us $200.

I don't look at the payback period so much as the "yield" which will run about 12% tax free!

 

Thanks, I live in Quail Creek. Lodi Solar Power is the installer that provided my quote, that company is giving a presentation to residents here this coming Friday.

Yes, that is very exciting! I'm estimating ~18% annual tax-free "dividend" if the system will cover my usage, more to the extent that electric rates increase:

$830 estimated annual electric bill / $4,580 net system cost after utility rebate and tax credits = 18.1%

Hopefully this capital investment adds to the property valuation, as well.

 

Wish I got the amount of sun that you guys in AZ get!! A 6 yr payback period isn't bad, and if you sell the RECs then it could cut that back quite a bit!

I've got a 5.2 system with 26 - 200 watt GE panels. I generate close to what your system is estimated to, and it only covers about half my usage through the year. However, my system is also not ideally situated, as I don't face N/S so I don't get as much production as it could. Either way, I was slated for an 8 - 10 yr payback period, but with the recession, my electric generation costs from the grid actually just went down 2 c/kw and I locked that in for the next 3 years.

When I first got my system installed, I ran a cable so that I have the ability to monitor my production 24/7 and record numbers all the time if I want to. I did this for the first 3 - 5 months I think, but then chose to just grab the latest numbers off the inverter whenever I'm on that computer.

I think you should go for it, especially if you don't have plans to leave the house anytime soon (from a financial standpoint). Any production from renewable energy is a plus in my book, and most panels have a 20 yr warranty on them too (atleast GE does). Feel free to shoot me a message if you want to chat about them or have questions. I would imagine you've done quite a bit of research already, though.

 

Patrick,
$1.5/watt sound like a terrific deal. How much extra for installation ?

 

Here's the bid itemization:

$23,400 for the 16 225W panels, inverter, installation, and obtaining all permits.
($10,800) Tucson Electric Power utility credit
($7,020) 30% Federal income tax credit
($1,000) AZ income tax credit

$4,580 net price. I have to pay the installer $12,600 as I can assign the TEP utility credit to the installer. I will then claim the tax credits when filing my 2010 tax return. (I can adjust my tax withholding to increase my take-home pay by the tax credit amount, during the remainder of 2010.)

 

Re: Our Solar Electric Panels

Kudos on considering a PV array, and good luck on
this project!

Curious about two things:

What are the AZ incentives? In my state of Missouri,
we get a one time $2/DC-watt rebate. Missouri is
considering a proposal for SRECs, too, but otherwise,
there are no additional state incentives. The two
incentives cover half of a project's cost, but that still
leaves a several decade payback period. If SREC
reimbursement passes here, the payback period
could drop to less than a decade.

[Edit: never mind on this question, I see you just
answered it.]

Are you sure you only consume 6,800 kwH annually?
That seems a bit low. Based on two years' worth of
utlity data for my 1200 sq foot ranch home, we consume
twice what you do, in a somewhat cooler climate.

--

We are in the process of installing a 3kW system, and
estimate that that will retire 25% of our consumption.
Your slightly larger 3.6kW system retiring 100% of
your consumption might be over-optimistic.

 

I itemized the various incentives in post #16 above. ​

The house is single-story, 2,405 sq. feet. Built in 2003, 2x6 construction, a tremendous amount of insulation in the attic and exterior walls. Three air conditioning units which in the summer months are run to keep inside temp around 72 degrees F (the thermostats are set at 76 degrees but seem to read high.)​

Here's electric power consumption over the past 8-1/2 months per the monthly utility bills.​

7/22 - 8/05: 860 kWh (partial month)
9/03: 930 kWh
10/6: 750 kWh
11/5: 670 kWh
12/8:: 510 kWh
1/11: 500 kWh
2/9: 390 kWh
3/10: 310 kWh
4/8: 430 kWh​

Total for 8.5 months: 5,350 kWh. Multiply by (12 / 8.5) to extrapolate: 7,553 kWh.​

The contractor estimated my annual usage to be 6,685 kWh, given the above usage data.​

 

Re: Our Solar Electric Panels

Be advised that the Federal tax credit applies to the
balance AFTER the utility company rebate. In other
words, it will be ($23k - $10K rebate) * 30% = $3.9K.
The Federal Government considers utility company's
rebates to be a reduction in the price of the array,
hence you don't get the credit on the full amount.

My installer gave me a paper which describes the
tax treatment, and I have attached that paper to
this post. Here is the operative quote from the
paper:

When a rebate is available from
the utility company, the rebate is
treated as a purchase price reduction.
This means that the value of
the rebate is subtracted from the
total purchase price, resulting in a
net adjusted cost for the purposes of
determining the value of the federal​

tax credit.

Also, an important point: you won't get the
Federal tax credit until next year (tax time 2011).

I understand that it may be possible to accept
the utility company funds as income. This has
the two consequences of: the Federal credit
applies to everything; you have to pay income
tax on the utility company payment.

Edit: the attached paper suggests that homeowners
cannot go the above route...would need to talk to
a tax advisor to be sure!

If you are in the 30% tax bracket, then the two
tax treatment options are a wash.

 

Re: Our Solar Electric Panels

Patrick,

Hmmm, now you are making me feel like a piker
compared to you with regard to energy efficiency!

My house was built in 1969, and so was not as
energy efficient to start with as yours. Over the
last three years, I have put a ton of energy
efficiency improvements into the house, including
more than $1,000 of insulation...plus have done
many many other improvements: caulking, plugging
air leaks, attic fan, replacing every window and glass
door (wonderful Pella products!).

My overall energy reduction on a year to year
basis was 10%. (that might not be a true
number because I don't have a way to compare
the weather for the two years)

I can't do anything further with wall insulation,
but you've inspired me to take yet another
look at doing more attic insulation!