PriusChat Gets a First Drive in the Prius PHV Tomorrow - Questions?

How does it compare with the Leaf ?

 

The big difference between the OEM Toyota PHV and the high end aftermarket PHEV conversion systems is overall acceleration power. After market conversions are limited in output power to around 21kW due to limitations of the mass-produced Prius system whereas OEM PHVs can probably reach upwards of 50 or even 60kW (the full rated power output of the motors for Gen2 and Gen3 respectively) since they are able to modify the core system components easily.

As such, I would be most interested in the electric performance of the PHV in question--though I can already tell you guys it'll be at least 50+ kW of electric power simply from reading press releases about it. I already get around 20 miles of EV range in my current Prius (Gen2) with my PICC (Plugin Conversions) system so I'm less interested / jealous of the range.

The reduced range most certainly has to do with Toyota trying to keep the cost reasonable and attractive to lower end buyers. They're quoting $1200 / kWhr minimum and if that's the case then the PHV feature may cost upwards of $8,000/$9,000 extra for their 13 mile range pack (assuming battery pack capacity of 5.2 kWhr and additional components such as high power charger, battery management system, profits and the likes).

I do find it interesting that Toyota now uses 3 separate Li-Ion batteries to power the vehicle. This seems like an oversight at first glance though I suppose it's possible doing it this way could reduce costs and improve reliability...or at least one of the two...

Andrew

 

+1

:Cry: . . . :Cry:

My question: Can you PLEASE just RUN OVER ME? Like many ... my HANDS are NUMB ... from SITTING on them for so long.

Actually, we've already beat that dead horse into pulp, under the "Payback umbrella" of the regular Prius. The variables have been charted ad nausium ... cost per Kwh ... cost per gallon ... coal/nuke/hydro/wind/PV/nat-gas source of electricity ... intrinsics ... oh gawd ... here comes that pain behind my right eye again

IOW, none of the 'cool' stuff? After all, bigger rims? (for example) means less range. In fact all the high tech stuff ... collision avoidance ... lane assist ... self park, all weigh so much (according to Toyota) that they can't be combined with the PV panel.

ek . . . I wonder if he had enough onions to bag on 'em for throwing away valuable researh dollars. ok ... I won't go down that road (must... bite...tongue!)

.

 

If you subtract the price of the 1.31 kWh NiMH pack, we may are looking at $6,000 extra. There will be $2,500 tax credit as well on top of that.

Judging from slide 30 of the program overview, the price would be between $29-38k. With $2,500 tax credit, we are looking at $26.5-35.5k depending of the optional feature packages.

Separating 3 packs can be beneficial. Each pack can use different Lithium variations optimized for each purpose.

 

And if a pack fails it doesn't cost you or Toyota $8,500.

 

Does any one know if charging one of these cars will involve having a charging station installed at home, like you have to have with the Nissan Leaf (at an additional cost of about $2K)? Will this car be smart enough that I can take an electric cord that comes with the car and plug one end into the 220 outlet my clothes dryer is currently plugged into (or other 120 outlet) and the other end into the car to charge it?

 

That's pretty much it for the 110 V charger... plug it in like you would any other device (except that you should not use an extension cord). The cord comes with the demonstration units.

The car will work with a 220 V charger as well, but that's a whole different beast. By code, the unit has to be hard wired, and of course there is the cost and time to install.

So, when you buy a Prius Plug-in, you'll be able to drive it home that day... no waiting 30+ days for the installation of the charger, inspection, permitting, etc. We hope that will be a big advantage.

Doug Coleman
Prius Product Manager
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

 

That's great. Hopefully it is fully charged at the dealer.

 

...but it seems from other post above this one that other manufacturers have found a way around the added time, trouble and expense of hardwiring a 220 charger into the garage. And when you move in a couple years, then you het to add that expence into moving again, and again....
It just seems like cost to benifit would be nearly imposible to recoop for the 220 hardwiring, if it cost near $2k, so scratch a fast 1.5 hr charge time.
I will say I'm pleased that it comes home with the 110 ready to plug into the wall, but that kind of shoots the idea in a previous post about coming home for an hour for lunch and getting almost charged up while eating.

 

thbjr, even though you won't get a FULL charge in a 1 hour lunch break, you will get a SIGNIFICANT amount of charge in that 1 hour, and as they say, something is always better than nothing.

I just wonder with the Nissan Leaf well out and established by the time this is released (sometime in 2012), how well it will be received? I for one am ready to give up my 2010 Prius to buy a Leaf, but from the Twitter chat last night on #carchat, it doesn't sound like even the Leaf will be availble before the 2nd half of 2011 in the Boston area (we are not in the initial launch market area). The "marketing" person answering the questions kept saying "we will ship the cars to where the customers are", then sais "not until 2nd 1/2 of 2011 for Boston".

I think the crux of all of this is "comming soon"

 

Mitch, you're very correct. A 1 hour charge on 110 is better than no charge. In theory that gives me 4 miles of EV driving. My disappointment mainly lies in trying to justify the expense of the 220 at home charger. I don't think I can. Would being able to use slightly less expensive 220 power be nice, yes. Would being able to cut the charging time in half to 1.5 hours be nice, yes. Does it justify a $2000 investment? That being said, how much extra cost is added to the car for this 220 charging option that I can't seem to justify laying out an additional $2000 to use? or is the addition of the 110 the added expense as some (all?) EU countries use 220 exclusively.
Tom

 

Leaf's 220v charger is $2k but $1k tax deductable.

 

$2200 for the Leaf 240V at home charger usbseawolf2000, and yes, 1/2 of it's cost can be deducted from your federal taxes.

I don't think there is a price announced yet for the 2012 PHEV Prius 240V charger (or the car for that matter), but you can probabbly expect similar numbers. Given that the PHEV Prius only has the 13 mile EV range, the 3 hour 120V charge time is probaly fine for most drivers.. For the Leaf, it's a totally different situation. Without charge, the Leaf isn't drivable, and with the 24KW battery pack in the Leaf, @ 120V it could take 12 hours to charge, so cutting that time in half or less is much more important for the Leaf...

 

This brings up another question to my inquiring mind. Since Phoenix is one of the 1st markets the Leaf is being offered in because there are 5 charging stations placed around the city, will the Prius PHEV be able to charge at those charging stations? I mean has our ever meddeling goverment actually done something right by setting a standard for the 110 and 220 charging plug receptical for EV cars to standardize charging stations outlets or is the electric fueling station of the future supose to have 729 adapters, 1 for every model and make of EV ever made?

...and thanks for all the info on the 110 and 220 charging posted answering my questions!