New Leaf Information

We've been discussing it since this morning, some of us got the email over 16 hours ago

http://priuschat.com/forums/ev-elec...-leaf-checking-out-tonight-7.html#post1096952

I hope this will be the subject of "What Drives Us" this week, you guys will have something solid to discuss this week

 

$6000 in Colorado! If I can figure out how to garage it at night, I'm so ready.

 

Important note about the tax credits:
Although the AMT issue has apparently been side-stepped, it also appears that the federal credits are only good as offsets to what you owe in taxes. In other words, if the total you owe to Uncle Sam is less than $7500, you won't get the full credit. (it also means this tends to favor those who make more money)

I may have it wrong, but that's what it looked like when I read the IRS rules - they haven't officially published the form for tax year 2010 though.

 

1040.com - Tax Credits

Nonrefundable Tax Credits
Most, but not all, tax credits are referred to as nonrefundable credits. A nonrefundable credit can reduce your tax liability to zero (0), but not below. You must have tax liability on line 46 of Form 1040, line 18 of Form 1040A, or line 43 of Form 1040NR to claim a nonrefundable tax credit.

Nonrefundable tax credits include:

• Child and Dependent Care Credit
• Education Credits (American Opportunity Credit is also partly refundable)
• Credit for the Elderly or Disabled
• Child Tax Credit
• Adoption Credit
• Foreign Tax Credit
• Residential Energy Credit
• Retirement Savings Contribution Credit

Refundable Tax Credits
A refundable tax credit is a tax credit that can reduce your tax liability below zero (0). Because it is possible to receive a refund from this type of credit, they're referred to as refundable.

Refundable tax credits include:

• Earned Income Credit
• First-time Homebuyer Credit
• Excess Social Security Credit
• Additional Child Tax Credit
• Health Coverage Tax Credit
• American Opportunity Credit – partly refundable
• Making Work Pay and Government Retiree Credits

 

We were cut out of the Prius rebate before because of the Child Tax Credit. And of course by not being able to carry the credit forward you lose too. Also, if you have had any capital losses you might get cut out too. I don't see why it couldn't be that people could carry these credits forward, it seems more of a scam this way. They don't tell you about the "fine print" until long after you have bought the car.

 

So is the EV credit refundable or no? I didn't see it on that page - probably because they won't publish most of the 2010 rules until April 15th at the earliest (and possibly later).

 

Would you clarify this please? How is the tax credit affected by the AMT. I have to pay the AMT? Do I get the tax credit or not?

NOTE TO MODS: This is posted in "Nissan Hybrids." The Leaf is not a hybrid. This belongs in "EV Discussions." Or else we need a forum just for the Leaf, as we have one for the non-existent Chevy Volt.

EDIT: Mods: Thanks for moving this where it belongs.

 

i am lost as to how this credit works as well. need info on what "category" its under if the category is listed.

i do know that i did not get all of my 2006 Prius tax credit either so am thinking i will get somewhat less than that on the Leaf. my tax liability is less than 7500 which really makes me want to rethink my Roth contributions. i may have to divert ALL of that this year to the Roth that way my tax liability would be higher this year. hmmm

 

I phoned again, didn't get any answers to my questions, but I did learn that apparently the tax credit is non-refundable. That is (as Tom183 explains above) you can deduct from your tax payment the SMALLER of the two: $7,500 or the amount of your taxes.

I asked if the tax credit is affected by the AMT or if it is diminished for high-income individuals, and she didn't know what I was talking about.

We're just going to have to wait...

 

OK, the point of my post above is that most tax credits are not refundable, for the obvious reason that refundable credits are money the gov't would have to pay out, rather than merely forego the collection of.

The literal language of Section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code is pretty tough to navigate. It is only effective for vehicles acquired after 12/31/2009. The relevant part reads as follows:

IRS Code Section 30D(c)(2)(B…the credit allowed under subsection (a) for any taxable year…shall not exceed the excess of—
(i) the sum of the regular tax liability (as defined in section 26(b) ) plus the tax imposed by section 55 , over
(ii) the sum of the credits allowable under subpart A (other than this section and section 25D) and section 27 for the taxable year.

Here's a quote from a tax analysis treatise:

The EV credit "is generally allowable to the full extent of a taxpayer's regular income tax and AMT liabilities, reduced only by certain other credits."

In other words, it can reduce AMT, it ain't refundable, and certain other tax credits get applied first.

DISCLAIMER: Noone should rely on anything I say in this post. Consult your own attorney or CPA.

 

Well said my friend ~ Speaking of waiting ~ While getting our other hybrid aligned at the local Lexus shop, I stepped over to the Nissan Dealer ... TODAY ... APRIL 15. Nissan had been saying they'll start taking deposits now. The folks at the Dealer didn't know squat ... and neither did the Nissan dealership that was even to our house! They're "guessing" deposits will start in "maybe another week". So much for fanfare.

By the way ... is it just me? Or does this ride look like a catfish ... YOU tell me ... which is which:




Seriously ... drop some wheels on one, or paint the other brown and
orange ... you wouldn't know one from the other, right?



Maybe we should start another poll to see if folks agree.

 

now now hill, it isn't THAT fugly

 

received this email today...

the priority reservation period for the 100% electric Nissan LEAF will begin soon.

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share​

follow us

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When sales commences in December 2010, limited quantities available in select markets/states thru online reservation system. Increased avail. in Spring 2011 with full market rollout thru 2012. At start of sale, one order per household address until avail. increases. ​

[1]After fed tax value subj to taxpayer's eligibility to offset maximum $7,500 in fed tax credits. Must incur fed. tax liability to receive max. benefits. Consult your tax professional. ​

[2]Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Dealer sets price. ​

[3]Estimated mo. paymt based on proposed offer which is subj to change. Estimates include assumed residual, money factor, & acquisition fee amounts. Excludes tax, title, & license. $1,999 initial payment required at consummation (includes $1,650 down paymt & $349 first mo. paymt). 2011 LEAF SV subject to avail. to well qualified lessees through Nissan-Infiniti LT ("NILT"). Subj to credit approval. Based upon $33,600 MSRP including dest. charge. Adjusted Net capitalized cost of $24,441 includes $7,500 manufacturer incentive for fed tax credit available to NILT by law, and $595 non-refundable acquisition fee. Dealer contribution may affect actual price set by dealer. Mo. paymts total $12,564. Lessee is responsible for maintenance and repair. Lease paymt excludes cost of EVSE/charging dock charging equipment. Security deposit not req. Disposition fee due at termination of lease term. See participating dealer for details. Finalized lease terms will be announced at start of sales in December 2010. ​

*For tailpipe emissions. ​

Reproduced with permission of Yahoo! Inc. ©2010 Yahoo! Inc. Delicious and the Delicious logo are registered trademarks of Yahoo! Inc. ​

Always wear your seat belt, and please don't drink and drive. ©2010 Nissan North America, Inc. ​

Nissan E-Mail Marketing
8900 Freeport Parkway
Irving, TX 75063 ​

 

i phoned as well and will not be doing that again. the guy i talked to gave me all kinds of misleading information. he did verify that i had registered for email invite but

he said, email reservations would start april 20th. batches will be sent out at regular intervals and would continue for several days. now i got email from Nissan which implies that all invites will be sent out on april 20th. so now, does this mean that emails will be sent out in the order requested??

or is our "place in line" already set by when we registered for the email request (iow, people who registered in march will get a "higher priority" then people who registered in april?)

he also implied that more than 80% registered after pricing was announced. so i wonder if that gives me a leg up since i registered weeks before hand online at facebook??

he did imply that there was a hierarchy of sorts involved but was unable to provide details other than repeating that exact time frames other than the april 20th date was "still being determined"

i dont really care that much. he did say that Nissan with full confidence will be able to deliver to everyone on the email list by end of 1st quarter 2011. so whether i get mine in December or march, i am fine either way

 

Do you think the Nissan dealers will sell the Leaf's for more than the MSRP?

"[2]Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Dealer sets price. "​

 

i doubt it, at least not at first. Nissan like Toyota, will probably mandate to dealers that all in the product launch be sold at MSRP only. when i was in 2010 priority purchase program, there were a few dealers that tried to add something to the cost of the vehicle (i am guessing to offset the discount we were given) but Toyota Corporate stopped that immediately.

now, we were responsible for "dealer prep" but vehicles sold at MSRP have dealer prep cost built into the price, so that "should not" be an issue here.

also, the negative vibes that would be created by an unexpected change in price would be catastrophic for a new product launch

 

I got the same email. I'd been told it would be sent out yesterday. It arrived in the wee hours of this morning.

Allan and I have been getting all kinds of contradictory information from that line. I speculate that in order to answer all the calls, they've put a lot of people on that line who know nothing.

This was the word until yesterday, when a new word came down the company pipeline (according to my local Nissan dealer).

This was the word I got from the local dealer yesterday, who told me he had just been told this that same afternoon. He asked his rep if he expected this would result in overloading the server and taking it down from all the volume of traffic at one time. The rep said, "Yes, probably."

I speculate that to spread out the traffic on the server, they originally planned to send out the emails slowly; but that complaints from the "hand-raisers" (that's us) changed their minds. Thus the late change in how they'll do it.

But I do not know if they'll actually send them all out at the same moment, or spread them out over that 5-hour period. And when they hit the Send button on a list of 85,000 names, I don't know if there are some hours delay between the first and last actually going out. I'll bet someone on Prius Chat knows how that works on bulk mailings. But I don't.

I believe they are underestimating the demand, and discounting the likelihood that a lot of people will scalp the car if they can get one, putting more pressure on the waiting list. I do not believe they'll be able to meet the demand.

In addition, in Washington State, there is a sales tax exemption which expires at the end of this year, effectively raising the total cost for WA state residents by $3,000 on January 1, 2011. A bill was introduced to extend the exemption, but it failed to pass. (In fact, with such high demand and such low availability, the state would be foolish to give a sales tax exemption.) But it means that if we cannot get our Leafs until January, we pay $3,000 more than if we get them in December.

Mark Jaremko of Jaremko Nissan in Spokane told us that he will sell the car for MSRP and will not add on any hidden charges. I presume there will be the "document fee," which by law in WA cannot exceed $150. But he will not play any tricks with pricing. I presume he will offer all the usual dealer add-ons, but he told us we can have the car for MSRP.

Other dealers may not be so nice about it. It's up to them. Lots of us got our Priuses for MSRP. A few dealers screwed their customers as hard as they could. But you could always avoid those.

 

I am still under the impression that if you are not in one of the initial launch markets, Nissan will be glad to take your deposit on April 20th, but you are not getting a vehicle until some time in 2011. I asked this question on the Twitter #carchat channel a few days ago, I asked specifically about "Boston" (there where at least 2 or 3 people asking about Boston on the chat). We where told conflicting information. First he said he had come back from meetings with the State of MA, and the timeframe is likely to be "the 2nd half of 2011", then when pressed, he said "we will ship the cars to where the demand is"

my guess, they are not going to ship cars out of the initial launch markets for the initial december shipments, despite many having given them $100 deposits. They are using this to gauge demand, and see which areas to develop...