Pol; Minimum Acceptable Range for the Leaf

I am fine with 80 miles, my roundtrip commute is 34 miles, so this more than covers it.

I would be more concerned with how many "charge/discharge" cycles the battery pack will have. Nissan has stated that won't matter, and the pack will have a 10 year life, no matter how many times it is charged/discharged. This is important, as this will affect when the battery pack REALLY has to be replaced.

 

60-80 would work for my commute. I answered 100 because that would be right in my sweet spot, as it would work for commuting and also for an 84mile drive I do about every two months.

 

My Xebra will go 40 miles if I need that, but 32 miles is 80% DoD, which I'm told is what's good for the batteries. The Porsche (once I eventually get it back) will go 80 miles, with 64 miles being that good-for-the-batteries range. So I would not buy a car with less than 100 miles range.

That gives me all the buffer I need for bad weather/heating/air-conditioning diminishment, etc., as well as reductions for aggressive driving (which I can refrain from when I need to push my range). (With the Xebra I have two distinct driving styles. If I am going to drive in the 25 to 35 mile range I feather-foot the pedal. If I'm just driving 10 to 15 miles I floor it. I'd have a similar approach to the Leaf, driving hard around town and driving gently for anything over 60 miles or so... if I ever drive that far, which seems unlikely.)

 

My round trip commute is 22 miles per day. So if you include a buffer of double the mileage and add 25% to keep the SOC in the optimum range for battery life I would need at least a 50 mile range in the worst possible conditions.

 

Unlike the Xebra or the Zenn, which are primitive cars without built-in battery protection, the Leaf will take care of its batteries, so we should not have to baby them. The guy I spoke with at Nissan a few months ago assured me that the ten-year battery life applied even if the car is regularly driven 100 miles on a charge.

So one need only take into account reduced range due to use of heat or A/C or high speed or jackrabbit driving.

But I don't go by worst-case driving, because when I want to drive near the car's maximum range I can choose to drive gently; and Spokane's winters are not like Fargo's. So I say I demand a 100-mile range under ideal conditions, because that means I'll manage even under less-than-ideal conditions. And the leaf will not be my only car because it's not going to get me to Revelstoke, B.C., so I'll still need the stinker.

 

I've said 100 miles.

I'm a bit of a cynic and feel that an advertised 100 mile range is probably the same as an advertised 70 mpg. You will probably get about two thirds of this in real life.

How is the 100 mile range calculated? Is it the maximum it will achieve in ideal conditions? So what happens when you need to drive to work in winter with the electrical heating and lights on full time?

 

My daily driving range is variable and large, so I simply am not a Leaf customer. (this does not mean I do not wish the Leaf well, I do. I see it as an answer to a great many people who have a relatively fixed weekday schedule)
My Service Area - Google Maps
My Prius's 400 mile range is only tolerable because 'recharging' it only takes 15 minutes.

 

Living in a more rural area causes longer trips on a semi-regular basis, while work commute still lies within bicycle range. This tips the balance towards a longer range than work commute would require, so I put a round trip to the nearest metropolitan region into play. That sort of flexibility is needed to justify an electric vehicle to a long time bicycle commuter. The Prius provides a good compromise now. Looking at the lines at the San Ysidro crossing the other day, the Prius does pick a lot of low hanging fruit as is!

 

Sounds like some confusion about the poll - is it the minimum acceptable range BEFORE considering adverse factors like rain or SOC, or minimum range even under the worst conditions?

And as Danial points out, is the SOC factored into Nissan's "100-mile" estimate? I think that's part of the problem - what did Nissan base their estimate on?

IMO, regardless of what math they use, if they advertise 100, it had better be able to do 80 just about every day - that's 20% below their estimate, and we've seen the Prius rarely does worse than 20% below EPA for "typical" driving.

 

The man on the Nissan Leaf customer support line told me you can actually drive the car 100 miles on a charge, at moderate freeway speed (I think he said 60 or 65 mph -- not 75) without shortening battery life.

I assume this means without using heater or A/C, and driving in a normal, moderate manner. He told me the figure was based on actual real world driving: that the car had been repeatedly driven 100 miles on a charge.

Nissan is not stupid. Companies like Zap and EEStor make their money by making exaggerated or false claims and promoting vaporware in hopes of attracting investment or manipulating their own stock price. Nissan makes money by selling cars. If they get this one right they will be first in the market and will have a position like Toyota has with hybrids. Nissan will become the company you think of when someone says EV and they'll have a market share that will be hard for any other company to challenge. They will profit BIG TIME. If they get it wrong they will join GM on the electric transportation hate list.

My opinion is that they are going to do everything they possibly can to get it right, and that includes not making exaggerated claims that sell a few cars now but leave consumers feeling defrauded.

This is going to be one fine car! I'd write them a check for the full purchase price today, in return for the promise of a car in December. (Unfortunately, I may have gotten onto the mailing list too late to get a car in December. People who had their eyes open and got on early are going to snap up the entire 2010 production.)

 

Range anxiety? Good! Hopefully that'll keep me from being nixed out of the wait list. Be afraid everybody be VERY afraid.


.

 

hill, I think those same "range anxiety" people also suffer from "short man" (Penis?) syndrome as well

 

Its technique that matters, not size!

 

I say as long as the ev gives the same range in the same situation, there should be no anxiety. The longer the range the better chance of running into a charging station

 

Well, I already answered the poll and I don't think I can change my answer there. But my minimum requirement is 80 miles under the most unfavorable conditions likely to occur aside from 100-year storms or disasters. I feel that 100 miles nominal will give me that. And your clarification suggests that the Leaf will exceed that.

Lots and lots of conflicting information out there. I'm just going to do whatever I can to try to order a Leaf, and at the same time hope that my Porsche becomes functional. (My guy thinks December is a possibility for that, but no promises. -- The Porsche, of course, was supposed to have a range of 125 miles to empty or 100 miles to 80% DoD, in good weather at freeway speed. It actually has about 2/3 of that.)

 

I agree with daniel, 80 miles under adverse conditions. the percent range loss sounds very inline with what tesla roadster/ other ev owners suffer during adverse conditions (cold weather, heavy rain, etc)